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City says that protecting people isn’t the job of law enforcement.

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Joseph Lozito was riding the subway when he was approached by drug-fueled spree killer Maksim Gelman. The murder announced that “you’re going to die,” and stabbed Lozito in the face, plunging a knife beneath his left eye.

Lozito did not die. The 6-foot-2 dad wrestled Gelman to the ground as the killer continued to hack away at him. Gelman stabbed Lozito in the back of the head several times before Lozito managed to disarm him. “He got to the back of my head because my left shoulder [was] in his waist,” said Lozito. The hero says he held Gelman in place until police arrived and arrested him.

Yet Lozito, who is suing the city, says that he never should have been attacked in the first place. He alleges that police officers Terrance Howell and Tamara Taylor, who were also on the subway, lazily ignored the fact that Gelman was loudly blundering about the train, even dismissing passengers who tried to alert them to Gelman’s presence.

Officer Terrance Howell and spree killer Maksim Gelman. Credit: New York Post.

Officer Terrance Howell and spree killer Maksim Gelman. Credit: New York Post.

The city is refusing to settle the suit, arguing that police had no duty to protect the people on the train. But “that doesn’t detract from the Police Department’s public safety mission,” the city says, “or the fact that New York is the safest big city in America.” It’s curious that New York City would tout its safety record while asserting that its police officers have no responsibility to protect people from knife-wielding madmen.

Officer Terrance Howell says that he, not Lozito, subdued Gelman. Lozito says that he held Gelman down until Howell tapped him on the shoulder, saying “You can get up now.”

The many scars on the back of Lozito’s head are a problem for Howell’s narrative. Lozito also says that at least one grand jury member has corroborated his version of events.

  • Tony

    Of course there not here to protect us, there here to shoot us and give us tickets, nothing more, and always less.

    • Manius

      Traffic cops are tax collectors.

      • Mick

        highwaymen for the robber barons in black robes.

    • YehudaPa

      If they are not there to protect us, than why are we not allowed to carry our own weapons to protect ourselves? And further, if they are not there to protect us then what do we need them for?

      • rpm5101

        1. Because that would give us more control over the police. And they don’t want that.
        2. We “need” them so that they can issues needless citations and max the local government money.

      • Muttiix

        We need them because it would be difficult for politicians to explain using military force to extract obedience and taxation from the public, so they need a militant force to do it.

        • donzap

          When I see a police officer in a patrol car, I can’t help but think of them as tax collectors sometimes.

          • Hereward the awake!

            You are right. In England, in Anglo Saxon times, the shire reeve was a tax collector. Shire reeve has since morphed into sheriff!

      • Peter Timmins

        Actually, we are allowed to carry our own weapons. It is called the 2nd Amendment. As it is written, all gun control laws, to include registration requirements, are unconstitutional.

        • paendragon

          *currently being actively infringed.


        • jsl55

          And they will shoot at you, (maybe hit you and a few other innocent people due to their lack of training and 10 pound triggers) if you try to exercise your GUARANTEED CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS. I hope you are more accurate than they are when they are trying to murder you and you are exercising your RIGHT of self-defense.

      • paendragon

        We need to pay them to help keep the donut companies in business.

      • TG

        easy, they carry firearms, batons, taser, pepper spray and more to protect themselves.

        • disqus_v3SHzvCspj

          Write reports and draw chalk lines.

    • Bob Bullock

      Tax collectors.

    • Kathy Reddy Woerner

      they’re here to control not protect

    • smartgranny55

      And to take away your guns and bullets.

  • Manius

    “protecting people isn’t the job of law enforcement”

    OH! Well, if that’s the case then, lets abolish this wasteful institution right now! Obviously then, it’s not needed whatsoever.

    (Although, I would like to see their actual words which amount to this rather than a reporter’s paraphrase.)

    • Zack

      Where do I vote ?

      • Manius

        The authorities would like you to cast your vote in the brand new porcelain voting booths labeled “Men” – they say they’ll get right on it, just pull the lever.

        • jsl55

          That explains how the POS usurper got into our White House. They counted the turds floating by as votes for him.

    • Don

      circuit court in D.C. came to the conclusion several years ago that it is not the duty of the police to protect, they claimed that they cannot be everywhere at the same time so therefore it is not there duty to serve everyone..

      • Frank Castle

        That was the WARREN vs D.C. ruling…

      • Donna Polles

        I have family and friends on the NYPD and they are told…in NO uncertain terms, that they are on “duty” 24/7 and are required to carry an off-duty piece at all times.
        SO, that’s a load of horse crap. Those cops SHOULD have stepped in and done the right thing.

        • Dadwasright

          Chicago has the same deal , that is why they can carry guns , for self protection . I am more concerned with them -helping- too much

      • $97817644

        Do they have a duty to protect when they are right there on the scene? If not, then taxpayers are getting a big shaft paying for police who can stand and laugh at them while they’re being raped, robbed, and assaulted. It’s a worse than a cruel joke.

    • Frank Castle

      See the court ruling in WARREN vs D.C. … YES it says EXACTLY what NY is claiming……

      • Teaparty01

        Very True
        Given that why would anyone live in or go to NYC ?
        The NYPD should place the disclaimer at all Airports and Transportation centers. See what happens to NYC revenue.

        • Labor74

          Come visit…at your own risk.

    • AwakenedAngryAmerican

      I agree. Fire all these non-protecting non-serving members of this Commercial D/B/A America, Inc. strongarm thugs. Take all of these unneeded departments salaries and give to all law abiding, Constitution protecting Sheriff’s Departments of this Republic.

      • John C

        Their is NO MENTION of the Sheriff in the U.S. Constitution, that is a myth.

        • jsl55

          He didn’t say anything about Sheriff being mentioned in our Constitution. He said that they are protecting our Constitution. Many sheriff departments do that. LA County is close to worthless in many respects, and worse in issues like the 2nd Amendment.

          • John C

            Yes, but many people claim that the sheriff is the only constitutionally protected law enforcement office, which is untrue. I NY Sheriffs in 52 of the 62 Counties are refusing to enforce Cuomo’s unconstitutional NY”SAFE” act, and of the anti-constitutional counties 5 make up NYC. It’s nice to see the sheriffs stand for the constitution it’s a shame that the Commies like Cuomo and DiBlasio refuse to follow the law of the land.

    • Shotski0

      Actually, the supreme court established that law enforcement does NOT have any duty or responsibility to protect you (see Warren vs D.C.). It is one of the reasons that 2nd amendment supporters are so hell bent to keep their guns. The Cops, by law, have no responsibility to protect the people. They are changed with enforcing the law, and that is all.

      • doug

        Wouldn’t stopping someone from stabbing another be “enforcing the law”?

        • Shotski0

          Arresting the person who did the stabbing would be enforcing the law. They do not have to stop someone from committing a crime. Their job is to arrest the perp and deliver them to the DA for prosecution. Not saying that most LEOs wouldn’t attempt to stop someone from harming others, only that legally they don’t have to. They can stand there and watch someone kill you, then arrest the perp, and you can’t sue them for not acting.

          • CaptainAhab

            Well then, they had better take that lie off of their car that says, “To Serve and Protect”, and change it to “To Arrest and Collect”.

          • John C

            The NYPD cars don’t say to protect and serve, that is the LAPD. the NYPD says CPR courtesy, professionalism, Respect. Very PC of them. That was only added in the last 20 years prior to that no PC nonsense was written on their cars.

          • $97817644

            I guess they could be well mannered ushers at a funeral or wedding, other than that, what good are they when you’re being pummeled, stabbed, or bludgeoned to death?

          • Jason Hunt

            Or “To Punish and Enslave”, like the Decepticon Barricade has is the 2007 Transformers movie.

          • Red Fred

            The Supreme court ruled they don’t have to protect citizens, only enforce the law.

          • Jim Coyle

            You are probably right – too bad you can’t sue them for being a bad human being!!

          • paendragon

            He’s not right.

          • jsl55

            You could still sue them for “false advertising”.

          • Fran

            The primary job of the LEO is go get home safely. That’s it!

          • paendragon

            But since even attempted crimes are still crimes, they are obliged to stop robberies and homicides while in progress.


          • billdeserthills

            Exactly, Shotski0. In fact if the police had stopped the stabber too soon there may not have even been a crime, heh heh

          • Mario Lawrence

            So how about “attempted murder” charges?
            Just attempting to kill someone is a crime. So if they are aware that someone is a threat and is attempting to kill someone else, are they not required to subdue the perp to carry them off to the DA? Or is a police officer’s “alloted time for action” going to have to be legislated. lol

            This is a failure of morality attempting to justify itself, by exploiting a failure of law.
            It’s despicable. If it goes before a jury, I hope they are able to think clearly about what kind of precedent they could potentially set.

        • John C

          The court ruled that to prevent every victim of every crime from suing the local police or sheriff’s department for every single crime that happens. It would bankrupt municipalities in no time at all. If the two cops were goofing off on the train, and their are cameras in those trains, and not doing their job, they should be punished for it

          • paendragon

            That decision was an unreasonable generalization, removing their responsibilit to judge each case by its merits. Like all criminals, they want to have rights without any responsibility.

      • DH Fowler

        Yet on their patrol cars it says to protect and to serve? crazy

        • Shotski0

          I know, most people are shocked that the police are not required to protect them, but due to the judgement of the supreme court, they don’t have to intervene. Again, most would, but if for some reason they fail to stop someone from hurting or killing you, you have no recourse. I would strongly recommend buying a gun and learning how to use it safely. If you live in an oppressive state where they no longer protect the constitutional rights of the people, get the required permits, pay the required fees, and bend over for the appropriate common sense officials… After all, the only person or government agent that has a responsibility to protect you is YOU! Long live the right to self defense!

          • Fran

            Actually, if you live in NY State you can get a permit but it is not valid in NYC. There, my friend, is the problem.

          • paendragon

            Then that’s actually a crime. We have a right to defend our selves from criminals, so the only people who would choose to disagree with it are criminals.

        • John C

          NYPD cars don’t say protect and serve, that’s the LAPD. As to how well the LAPD does that, you can as Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman.

          • jsl55

            LACSO is no better. It took them over 20 minutes to respond to a shooting in progress call – and that was 30 years ago. They have gotten worse since then.

      • There are some good features to this arrangement – we don’t want to move in the direction of “pre-crime”. The New Testament justifies the government “bearing the sword to be a terror to evil doers” – I.e. punishing crime after the fact. If it wasn’t for the progressive attack on the 2nd amendment, protection would simply be an individual responsibility (with the option for those with money to hire a security company).

        This does bring into question the premise of most inexpensive home security systems – they effectively just call the cops. I suppose the crime would be “trespassing”.

        • Fran

          If the police officers were informed by other passengers they should have at least followed the guy to see if he was on the up and up. My guess is they were too busy talking about their pensions.

        • paendragon

          There is nothing good about this false right of theirs to remain irresponsibly wrong, because their false reasoning ignores the fact that even ‘merely’ attempted crimes, are still crimes. So for a cop to witness an attempted robbery, any assault (which can be construed as attempted murder) etc., and to do nothing, IS to shirk their own responsibility because while they don’t have to prevent a crime from happening, the attempted version of the crime has already been made.

      • gman68137

        Strange, but true. And why I believe we should preserve our ability to protect ourselves.

      • Manius

        Oh, the kangaroo court says so? Now that it all makes sense.

        How do they get away with using that line “serve and protect”, then? Shouldn’t they either have to stop claiming this, or actually do it?

        The least they could do is be honest about it. Since they’re charging us for this service, that pretty much amounts to fraud. I wonder if the court wrote that one down in their books.

      • FreetheBirds

        Cops don’t enforce the law. They show up after the law has been broken to “investigate” crimes. Their job is to find someone to punish. Unfortunately many cops are now sure they are the “master” and choose who to help and who to persecute or even murder.
        Remember in September of 2001 the NYPD were America’s greatest heroes? Now look at them. Disgusting.

      • Jessica Bowen

        The case of Warren v. D.C. is not a Supreme Court case – it was heard in the DC court of appeals.

      • John Erps

        ok! if that’s the truth then isn’t it against the law to shot or stab someone. or hit someone. once some one breaks the law it is there job to enforce the law. make it whatever. but any one who can think for themselves can figure that out.

    • Charles Vincent

      http://en DOT wikipedia DOT org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia
      http://www DOT nytimes DOT com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0

  • The point of the police isn’t to provide security. It’s a jobs program with “security” as the excuse to tax.

    • slut lover

      And to keep the citizens in govt control.

  • Mick

    Ahem, it’s not PC but I’m going there…there’s a demographically lazy social component at work here.

    • Frank Castle


      • Dan Moore

        It is the pigmentation element.

        • Frank Castle

          Ok… Got it.

  • Bastiat

    get rid of the police, they’re cowards at best, criminals at worst.

    • John C

      Then you be crimin everywhere.

  • Farleyagain

    Sue the city and the police department for millions! Along with the other victim’s families.

    • DMCRN

      That’s the ONLY thing that will make things change. Unfortunately, it will be the taxpayers who will have to pay–even if it’s only in insurance premium increases. The two cops should be FIRED, if for no other reason than to PREVENT future lawsuits against the city…

      • Farleyagain

        Right! All the victims were harmed and should demand compensation especially for the failure of the subway cops. And our hero should get some kind of commendation from the city as well.

      • John C

        They can’t be sued, the Supreme court ruled they have no duty to protect the individual, to prevent cities from going bankrupt. The are there to protect society as a whole not the individual.

    • John C

      They can’t be sued, the Supreme court ruled they have no duty to protect the individual.

  • That is what the Communist mayor had done and the Socialist mayor before him.

  • Cathy Mayeaux

    So, to “serve and protect” is just something cute to write on their cruisers? I showed this to some true police officers, they are currently picking up their jaws from the floor! Like one said, “this is the problem we have. this is why real cops get hurt. they treat the civilian public like crap and then when a good cop shows up he/she is treated like the original one should’ve been. we need to take down the blue wall that protects them and whatever happens, happens. we need to get the trust back and the only way to do that is for us to be better and get rid of the bullies playing cop in a uniform they don’t deserve to wear.”

    • ReneeTru

      Well said Cathy.

    • it should read to ” Enforce and Regulate “

    • John C

      That phrase is on the LAPD cars, not the NYPD

  • Frank Castle

    NEW YORK.. where the COPS have NO DUTY to protect you, and the SULLIVAN ACT.. PREVENTS YOU from PROTECTING YOURSELF!! Sorry, but NYC can FK itself..

    • John C

      Actually, that ruling was made by the Supreme court and applies to every Police, Sheriff, and Law Enforcement agency in the nation. The case was against the police in D.C.

  • Brian

    Shortly after Washington DC banned guns thanks to the Supreme Court, it too was sued by someone who was attacked in their own home. Cops failed to respond. Court ruled that police do not have a duty to protect. If that is the case, then what the hell do we pay them for?!?

  • ohspareme

    “No duty to protect”? Thought the Police motto WAS to “protect and serve”???

    • Jeremiah Ellison

      It’s a marketing slogan, like Subway, “Eat Fresh”.

      That is NOT, in any way, a guarantee on the quality of their product, of it’s freshness, or that it’s even fit for consumption.

    • John C

      That is LAPD’s motto.

  • Jeremiah Ellison

    The police have no duty to protect you.

    But they don’t think you should have a firearm for that, either.

  • gregorymark

    Can someone think of one thing that government does well? It runs schools that don’t educate; health care programs that don’t keep people healthy; build roads that within a year are in shambles; and in this case, run public safety agencies that don’t provide safety to the public.

  • chickief

    Surely there is video?

  • dovertea

    It seems that all the NYC police are NYC’s finest….

  • Dennis

    On the face, it would appear that the police officer was negligent in his duties – perhaps hiding behind a union-mandated loophole that precludes them from having to respond when on designated mass-transit systems…whatever.

    At worst, he’s a coward, unwilling to do his job yet willing to collect a paycheck anyway.

    But there may be other facts, to which we are not yet privy. I would personally refrain from judgment until the full story comes out in it’s official form and any rebuttal from the persons affected.

    I do feel for the victim. We as citizens should be situationally aware and prepared to defend ourselves. Tough to do in a city that does everything they can to hogtie you and restrict your defense capabilities.

    Texas is huge, folks. Room enough for everyone.

    • Keith Lombard

      Lol,don’t tell them that Dennis, our lonestar republic already has too many foreign invaders as it is. 🙂

      • Brian V. Sitterley

        I suspect that the average self-defense advocate is the sort of person you want in Texas. More of them might make the liberals so uncomfortable than they move to New York City and leave you in peace.

    • Gort

      Too bad he couldn’t carry, put a couple of lead pills in the POS’s head and turn his brains to pancake batter. Time to civilize the the thugs with a whip or a rope.

      • John C

        Actually it looks more like oatmeal when it’s draining from the skull.

  • William Henry Bowen

    Since the “Warren vs DC” ruling the cops are nothing more than hired goons for the government. They are there to enforce government edicts against the citizens, NOT to protect citizens from criminals. At the same time the government attempts to more and more restrict what we as citizens can do to protect ourselves from the criminals. At some point this whole process is going to have a VERY bad ending.

  • RK

    Better ban knives!

  • polyduces

    Any cop who argues this should be fired immediately.

  • Steven

    NOT that I agree with it, but the Supreme Court has held that police do not have a duty to protect citizens. The case that went up was even more egregious than what we read here (far more).

    It was argued because it would open up a can of worms on litigation – so, instead of fixing the out of control lawsuit problem we have (not in the purvue of the Supreme Court, and certainly not in this case), they addressed the SYMPTOM and protected municipalities and cities, at the expense of the citizens (petition for a redress of grievences)

    Look – the cops are already protected individually by Sovereign Immunity – and now so is your local, state, and federal gov’t.

    Only ones not protected, but can be held both civily and criminially liable are the citizen. Responsibilities without rights. Even enumerated ones clearly laid out.

  • Zearing Hubbard III

    The two cops are lazy nuckin figgers, what do you expect?

  • John Edward Wiedman

    All they had to do was pull out their gun and shoot the asshole, they shoot innocent people all the time. Guess they are afraid of criminals, Lol. they are afraid of their own shadow, these punks aren’t even trained except in subduing and murdering us.

  • Mike E. Cooney

    NYC cops are unionized liars, loafers, and do as little as possible to draw a check. Typical Demonrat scum like they all are…

  • Jeremy Yoder

    I always post in places in regards to finding someone who can pen voting issues for budget cuts to be up for elections. I have yet to meet a single person online who knows how to pen and petition a budget cut for law enforcement. We need to defund law enforcement until Warren vs DC is repealed

    • FreetheBirds

      Won’t happen. Police unions are way too powerful. Besides, government only cuts muscle, and never fat from the budget. Planning to cut social services works better because enough people will whine and the cuts don’t have to happen. Cutting true waste and unnecessary expenditures will never be proposed by politicians because they won’t get to pocket that money if they do.

      • Jeremy Yoder

        Then we make them listen. Try not to be such a pushover, all you need is to pen the budget cut issue and promote it. Use instances of police brutality and neglect to drum up public support. Send a message.

      • Jeremy Yoder

        My experience has been that a budget cut can be placed on the ballad without the approval of a state government if enough signatures are on a petition. It goes through a channel that the lawmakers don’t have access to and the people can vote on it.

        • FreetheBirds

          Where? In New York? A city that elected an openly Communist mayor? I doubt there would ever be enough signatures, and the bureau that will receive the petition will probably emulate CA and invalidate enough signatures that it will never get on the ballot. Does New York have this process?

  • C. Wyatt Hertz

    When did cops become revenue agents instead of law enforcement and public protection agents? Cowards should not be wearing the badge.

    • Dana King

      It’s been like that for a loooooong time and only recently are some becoming aware of it. Unfortunately the news media does not report that sort of thing so the majority of the public are under the woefully mistaken idea that the police are there “to protect and serve”, which is a complete farce and nothing but a PR stunt to further keep you in line.

    • FreetheBirds

      Remember when cops were “Peace Officers”? They won’t be ever again until the whole system is eradicated and goes back to Constitutional limits.

      • John C

        NY has three statuses Police Officer, Peace Officer and Civilian, all are different under the law, when it comes to the Law of Arrest. See the NYS Penal Law and Criminal procedure law for more information.

  • Clint Hamilton

    They have no duty to protect the people but some states and cities want to disarm the public? So, whether you’re a libertarian and want to protect yourself or you’re a statist and want the police to protect you; you’re screwed both ways.
    The ONLY conclusion you can come to is that they want you defenseless and you don’t matter; period.

  • FrankHerbert ✔ ᴾᴬᵀᴿᴵᴼᵀ

    in a police state… it’s not their “duty” to protect you, but to ensure your compliance under oppression

    • Dadwasright

      Well said !

  • YehudaPa

    It’s obvious that Lozito took that brunt of the attack and subsequently subdued the attacker. If not for Lozito there may have been many many more dead.

  • janhalt

    What does “Provide for the common defense” mean if not to protect?

    • Joe Clam

      They’re paid to protect the state, nothing else. “Common Defense”, “Protect and Serve”, these are all just bullshit slogans designed to mislead. Their real purpose is very clear: The police protect the powers that be, and if you ain’t one of those powers, you ain’t protected.

  • Buck Sunset


  • Skydog1

    Exactly why I will never set foot in NYC. You can’t have the means to protect yourself, and the city, argues that police had no duty to protect the people.

  • MJ Swe

    Sock it to them good, Lozito. We don’t need these kind of good-for-nothing police. What do they get paid for, standing around looking stupid? The government wants to take all our means of protecting ourselves, while they give us no real police protection either. Well there’s something bad wrong here!

  • hans gruber

    I guess “To Protect and Serve” is only applicable to the LAPD. Unless they’re kidnapping and raping Asian women.

  • guy r west

    dang but things have changed and regretaibly not for the better

  • libertyordeath2010

    It is no longer “to serve and protect” but to intimidate and extort

  • Phineas Worthington

    I have a young disturbed relative who said he wanted to become a cop because he likes to beat people up and taze people. He is now a cop.

    • John C

      You could have been responsible and went to the Department when he was being investigated for the job and told the what he was like. Instead you let him be put in that position knowing he was like that. That’s on your head if he hurts or kills someone unjustly.

  • FaceJoebook User

    Hello everybody,
    This is Joe Lozito. I appreciate everybody taking an interest in this. I want to alert you all that soon enough, I will have a book out with every single detail in it. EVERYTHING! You can keep tabs on it by following me on twitter at @joe_lozito or via fb at my Justice For Joe Lozito page. Thank you all!

    • DCBrough

      Wow, your story is unbelievable!! The gull of those officers!! Thanks be to God you are alive to tell this!

    • cuivre2004

      What was the race of the officers? It might be selective enforcement based on the race of those involved in the fight. We have seen this before by paramedics (african american) who would not help a choking victim since they were “on break” at the time.

      • John C

        Look at the picture in the article.

        • cuivre2004

          Ahhh! But of course! (I didn’t bother to read the caption the first time- I assumed he was another officer- not the one involved. )

          • John C

            Well, involved after the fact. After he stopped hitting on the female PO

  • Weenus

    The Supreme Court ruled a while back that police officers have no duty to protect US citizens…they are a corrupt special class citizens that rarely answers for wrong doings against citizens of the country…their police cruisers no longer say to protect and serve they say to punish and enslave… The sheriff is the only legal la enforcement agency according to the Constitution so I say dissolve all of the corrupt entities and leave the sheriffs departments as most of uh em stil believe in the 2nd amendment

    • John C

      The Sheriff is not mentioned in the U.S. Constitution. That is a myth. Read it!

  • Kayse

    So… What does the NYPD get paid to do?

    (Budget cut that department)

  • mikec711

    Most police are not the bad guys. When you have millions of people in any profession, some are bound to be lazy, cowardly, or brutal. It’s just the law of averages (and most good cops know who the not good cops are). After 3 young ladies were gang raped for 6 hours in DC after calling 911 6 times when no help ever came, their law-suit was met with the same thing, no obligation to protect. Ironic that the cities dis-arm you so you can’t protect yourself, then don’t take responsibility for protecting you. That’s more politicians that cops. And unless we get 20x as many cops … it will always be true that … when seconds count, the police are just minutes away.

  • LifeTraveller

    Actually many of you have it wrong. . They do protect and serve, just not the common folk. They are here in place to protect and serve the “1%”, and those in “power”. Little do this drones realize their masters fully intend to turn on them eventually. . They will eventually get what they deserve

    • Kevin

      Enough with the class warfare already. The only thing that police protect and serve is the state.

  • james

    both officers should be suspended without pay, fired and possibly brought up on charges. they took an oath and have a duty to protect and serve the public anything less puts them in derelict of their duty.

  • 1911HeadBanger

    Let’s see, they continue to DISARM LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AND CREATE MORE GUN CONTROL, while telling them they have no duty to protect those same people they disarm. Liberal Logic.

  • Susan Brusco

    A police officer is now a days one of the last people you can count on to protect or help you. They are the one you need to watch out for and be wary of.

  • Donna May

    I hope he wins. What if this assailant had picked on a woman or smaller less able person. What’s wrong with them. That’s there job. Should fire them.

  • Donna May

    their job. Sorry.

  • gladtoberetired

    i would never call a cop anymore…cause more harm than good

  • Barry Maloney

    Better stop that “Stop and frisk”, OH WAIT! These useless cop bastards could not be bothered!

  • Mike Santino

    The cops are revenue agents for the City Of New York

  • PS

    Negro be lying. Nothing new here.

  • Phil Evans

    The Supreme Court has ruled that the police is NOT your personal body guard. When will the sheep realize this? Perhaps incidents like this will indicate that you are your own first responder. Well, on your own anyway as far as the courts and some police officers are concerned.

    Kudos to Joseph Lozito for using his muscle to stop a murderer. That’s about all you can use in NYC to stop a criminal, or you’ll get thrown in jail by the communist leaders of that city.

    Thankfully, I live in Georgia where I can be lawfully armed with a pistol. That’s better insurance against a knife attack than fists.

    • UnpluggedBeta

      Don’t you know that owning a gun hurts the children? How dare you try to protect yourself. Are you trying to put the police out of a job? The union will hear of this!

  • Scott Harrison

    SCOTUS ruled many years ago that the police are here to enforce the laws, not protect us. Unfortunately, we can’t seem to use this ruling as an argument for protecting ourselves.

    • Frank Castle

      So, there is a law on the books against assault and battery, attempted murder, etc. The enforcement angel is if a LEO is present, to stop that and arrest the perp. Am I missing something here?

      Might as well make LE private and take it away from government. In that case, my 2nd amendment right should be good enough.

  • Cognitive Dissonance

    Of course police can’t be everywhere all the time, but in this case they were there and they violated their oath to keep the peace, which is dereliction of duty and breech of public trust.

    • Kevin

      Police don’t have to help you even if they are watching you be murdered directly in front of them. Buy a gun; learn to shoot; help yourself.

      • Cognitive Dissonance

        So you’re saying when you hire a doctor he isn’t required to save your life either? That’s preposterous.

        • Phil Evans

          Individuals don’t normally hire a police officer to be their body guard.I suppose the rich few sometimes do.

          Otherwise, the police officer is not a direct hire like your doctor is. To purport that is preposterous.

          Police SHOULD help – morally at least. But the courts have stated that have no legal obligation to help any particular individual.

        • Manius

          If you hire a doctor, that’s an explicit contract, so it’s a little different. They can at least be held liable for breaking that contract (not that any would intentionally).

          Since we are coerced into paying for police and it’s clearly not a mutual & voluntary contract, so I guess this is the result we get.

          • Guess what? Now you are coerced into paying for your doctor, and it is no longer a mutual & voluntary contract, so I guess that is the result we will get in medicine from now on as well.

          • Manius


        • Kevin

          Police are there to protect the government, not you.

    • Phil Evans

      With the police not being everywhere all the time, and with some not helping you even when they are – that’s exactly why I carry a pistol to help keep myself and my family safe.

    • John C

      The oath taken is to protect and defend the Constitution, and laws of the state of New York and the city of New York. No oath to keep the peace.

  • mac

    Liberalism will destroy New York City.

    • pearl87 ✓ᴰᵉᵖˡᵒʳᵃᵇˡᵉ

      It happened before, it will happen again. There’s only one Rudy Giuliani.

      • John C

        Rudy Giuliani didn’t save the city it was his Police Commissioner Bill Bratton who did. It was his plan and his actions that saved NYC. He did it first when he was the Chief of the Transit Police and he had done such a great job crushing crime in the subway system that Rudy Giuliani hired him to by NYPD Commissioner. Bratton was getting great headlines and Rudy got pissed because he wanted the credit for Bratton’s work, so he fired Bratton but kept the Bratton plan. That is why crime dropped, not because of Rudy.

  • ImNotPC

    Wake up people. People that put their faith in cops and think cops are there to protect them are nothing shy of being IDIOTS.

    Read the ‘The Public Duty Doctrine’. They have no obligation to protect you or your families.

  • Frank Castle

    I guess “To Serve and Protect” became old fashioned to the NYPD. In my world, the citizen should “Shoot to Center Mass with a three shot burst from his concealed firearm. Screw NYC and their insanity. I feel for the people trapped there.

  • swamp fox

    Of course they weren’t there to help. there was only two of them , not a homicidal swat team with mask over their face to back them.

  • WagTheDawg

    If the cops are not there to serve and protect, then WHY ARE THEY THERE?

  • $11290429

    Lazy, good for nothing, EEO and Affirmative Action Hires. They do as little as absolutely possible, to collect their check. Its no wonder the citizens have lost respect for the Boy in Blue.

  • JThaddeustoad

    Pay attention folks …. They are out of control and it is getting worse … They are there to enforce the POLICIES (aka POLICE)of our elected officials …. Some stupid judge absolved them of having to protect and serve the public and from that point on it became LAW (Policy)Enforcement instead of Protect and Serve…Regardless of the oath they took upon appointment …. Wake up folks..

    • John C

      Protect and serve is the LAPD’s Motto, nothing more and they are even worse at it than any other police agency in the country.

  • Fran

    If they are not there to protect then what the heck are they doing on the subway? Why are we bothering to pay a salary to someone just to walk around with a gun?

  • dude911

    The officer was notified of the dangerous man, and took no action to stop him. If this happened a few moments before the attack, who could have prevented it? But if it were multiple notifications over several minutes prior t the attack, yes, the officers duty to serve and protect is an obligation. They are allowed to carry the weapons that they use because of public safety, and if the officer was lax in the performance of duty then he is at fault.

  • Bigearsbarry

    And in what universe is NYC the safest big city in the US? And what are they considering “big”? Do you have to have a population of over 5 million to be considered “big”?

  • jdtay58

    The police are nothing more than revenuers.

  • John C

    Terrance Howell, probably put in for a medal for the arrest, see what his story was and if it jibs with what actually happened, if not he can be charged with perjury or fired for falsifying his paperwork and receiving the medal based on his lies. It is sad but true that the department does not have the obligation to protect the individual based on a supreme court ruling which states that police departments are not obligated to protect the individual. That is another reason the second amendment is so important.

  • pearl87 ✓ᴰᵉᵖˡᵒʳᵃᵇˡᵉ

    This should alert everyone that NYC is no longer safe for the public as the police have officially renounced any responsibility for their safety.
    Tourists beware.

  • I would argue that protecting people *should* not be the job of police. Think of all the other libertarianrepublic stories where police jumped in, and killed the wrong guy. Like the black dad who ran after his white wife during an argument in the parking lot, and was wrestled to the ground and beaten to death by police officers in front of his wife and daughter – who probably thought they were protecting the wife from an attacker. What about the “shopping while black” stories, where police jump to conclusions about who is about to commit a crime based on skin color?

    The idea of “protect and serve” is very socialist, and leads to gun registration, and other “preventative” measures. As libertarians, we should not complain that police no longer even attempt to “protect” – instead we should complain that people expect that, and seem to (foolishly) accept it as a substitute for self defense. And the *real* injustice is the infringement of our right to bear arms.

  • Bryan Taylor

    Government only tells the truth when it suits their side of the lawsuit. This is the truth, the police/city/fire/etc have no duty to protect or serve: They are nothing more than revenue agents and collections officers. You are on your own, hence your right for self-protection.

  • kingdad

    Some cops are just lazy and don’t want to get involved. Just like the civilians.
    Just another reason why the S.A.F.E. Act Must be Repealed in NY and the unfettered Right to Conceal Carry for law-abiding Citizens should be Universally recognized across America. An Armed and Concerned Citizenry will quell Crime in a hurry. Remember when your have to make a life and death decision in mere milliseconds you can rest assured that the Cops are Minutes or longer away!

  • RealChief

    Sick, sick individual.

  • The Ronster

    Police Officers Terrance Howell and Tamara Taylor coming to the aid of a white man? You’ve got to be kidding? Two black officers coming to the aid of a white person? Racism at its finest. If it was the opposite way around , the NAACP, ACLU and the Potus would be all over this like stink on you-know-what. It’s “Open-Season” on all whites… Actions (or rather inactions) speak volume.

  • I seem to remember someone named Goetz on a NYC subway that prevented someone stabbing him with a screw driver by using a gun.

    In the FWIW category, in Atlanta there are very few crimes on the subway because of the excellent police presence in the system -AND- you never know when you might come across 2-3 people in the same car with concealed weapons.

    Chances are if you pull out a knife and start stabbing people, out of 20 people, 3-4 of them will have guns, and even grandma will ventilate you.

    Most of the MARTA crime comes on buses or outside the station where people can get away quick by running.

    Even crazy people value not having holes in them, which is why they rarely attack police stations or gun shops.

  • paendragon

    So, like all criminals, these “police officers” wants right (like, to our stuff – in their cases, to their tax-paid salaries, and to have authority over the rest of us) without any concommitant responsibilities (like, to earn it)?! “To swerve and deflect!”

  • paendragon

    Since even attempted crimes are still crimes, they are still legally obliged to stop robberies & homicides in progress, because the ‘attempted’ part is already over.


  • AL

    I hope he sues them and wins. Where do I donate to his legal campaign. Why is it police in NYC only go after law abiding citizens and are afraid to go after criminals. This is an outrage.

  • gmo2ashes

    It’s well-known police are not here to protect you. Their only official function is to generate affidavits against the populace and seize property for the state. You are more likely to be assaulted, raped, robbed, or murdered by them than by common street thugs. Call them at your own risk. Personally, I’m prepared to defend myself and fight my own battles.

  • Poupon Marx

    Yes, a concealed “peacemaker” would have been appropriate and the perp would have died of lead poisoning.

  • Lawrence D. Wood

    The NYPD are right. The body of law that exists clearly demonstrates that no citizen has a right to police protection. That the police are there to protect and serve is a liberal lie. The courts have said otherwise. The cops are the arm and hammer of gov’t, not there to serve and protect anything.
    That’s why states like Alaska have very good carry laws and we are allowed to carry openly or concealed.
    Hard to have this kind of attack here when the bad guy does not know if his intended victim is armed.
    However, we don’t have subways, either, or fools like nanny Blooberg and Blasio.
    How do you folks like your liberal nanny state, now?

  • Billca

    Historically the courts have said there is no duty to protect any single individual. Rather the police role is societal. They deter crime by visible patrols, investigate crimes committed and arrest perpetrators. DeShaney v. Winnebago County; Warren v. D.C. and Riss v. New York are all cases where the courts said there was no duty to protect you or me, only “society in general”.

    I posit that in any case of personal danger YOU are the first responder. How you react and how effectively you act will determine the outcome. Sadly, those who hold the reins of power have always been afraid of armed citizens. Why do you think most of Europe has a long tradition of denying people arms? Because kings, princes and other elites rightfully feared the subjects they constantly taxed, harassed and robbed. Today’s politicians are no different.

  • Tranqual

    scumbags say they don’t have to protect you and at the same time do all they can to prevent people from protecting themselves.

  • Sorry to tell you this folks, but the Supreme Court has already ruled on this numerous times. The police have NO legal responsibility to protect the law abiding from the dangerous criminals amongst us. They will however do everything in their power to prevent the law abiding citizens from exacting justice from those who have committed crimes. Why do you think that they put body armor on high profile murderers when they take them to court? It’s to keep some victim’s family from meting out the justice that the slime ball deserves but will never receive under the current system.

    Had this happened on the light rail in Phoenix, instead of in the unarmed victim zone known as New York, the guy with the knife would’ve almost certainly been shot BEFORE he had stabbed the other guy repeatedly. He may have simply been shown a pistol and told to drop the knife. Either way, it wouldn’t have resulted in a law abiding citizen being saddled with thousands of dollars in medical bills, and it might have saved the taxpayers a few million dollars in court and incarceration costs.

  • John W Weaver

    The more I read things like this, the less respect I have for police in general. I know and have known some high quality people who have been and are cops. There are many local sheriffs in my area who told the Obama admin. to pound sand when it comes to violating the second amendment. I’ve also noticed a general lack of respect that police show the average citizen. The bottom line is police need to be vigorously monitored by the public. When they get abusive, well then if they get what they have coming, too bad. Years back here in Idaho, a fish and game officer named Pogue went throwing his weight around everywhere and was about as abusive as you can get. An anti-hunter through and through policing hunters, trappers, and fishermen. Not a good idea in hunter friendly gun toting Idaho. He finally messed with a local short fuse named Claude Dallas who killed him and dumped his sorry carcass in a coyote den. My advice to police is if you think you’re on the payroll and have no duty to protect, find another line of work. Sooner or later your bad attitude will cost you. You aren’t invincible. You bleed just like any other man and many of us know it.

  • JT Hickman

    The rest of the States would feel sorry for you, but you elected those who banned your means of self-defense.

  • scrotus

    IMAO “Tamara”…affirmative action at it’s VERY best…

  • Ron

    To protect and serve. Not to cower in the corner while a civilian does your job. Be a man. Do the right thing.

    • lostdutchman

      I will bet the operating jurisdiction between the NYPD and the subway’s unions prevented the cops from becoming involved, and the subway police are patrolling the platform instead of being on board a car. Another positive feature of Unions is ‘job protection’. Wouldn’t be surprised if the subway unions got upset because Lozito was doing their job, minimizing their usefulness in so doing !

  • Stu Bailey

    LUKE 22:36

  • Lynn Jordan

    …..and the IDIOCY continues………..

  • ReturnOfTheFallen

    Warren v DC ruled on this some time ago, law-enforcement has NO obligation to protect or serve, even if 911 tells you an officer is on the way and they get the call, they don’t have to show up.

  • John

    the poor guy should have just had a concealed carry, and just blasted the the guy as he charged with a knife

  • $36055288

    Imagine how things are going to get when then take the guns. Might as well just rebrand USA as North Mexico.

    • Troubleshooter

      They’re not gettin’ the guns. That’s how it’s gonna go. What will YOU do?

      • kharaa

        I know what i’ll do, I could quote charlton heston.

  • rick

    Scumbag mayor and a scumbag cop. Get him for perjury in front of the grand jury.

  • Clay Cooper

    City says that protecting people isn’t the job of law enforcement.

    It’s true, “In 2005 Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) ruling
    that received little attention when handed down, but which is extremely
    pertinent to today’s gun debate, found that police officers are not
    constitutionally bound to protect citizens.”

    The cold hard truth of the slogan of commitment on Police Units “To serve
    and to protect” is dangerously false and misleading resulting in serious
    consequences or death that could’ve been prevented by armed citizens. But our Government continues to maliciously disproportionately target minorities and poor people with less access to legal defense. The truth to the matter, there are those who believe in denying justice, enforcing poverty, prospers where ignorance prevails, and they make you feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, the truth is neither persons nor property will be safe.

    I listen to those who oppose concealed carry and open carry
    including just flat out against having a firearm. What is obvious is about the
    antigun gun side, their beliefs are not at all based on facts and definitely
    ill informed. They have no practical experience or they must carry the tune
    from higher up with malicious intents. But most of all, they believe you must
    share in their own sickness (hoplophobia, n. Irrational, morbid fear of guns) and beliefs, there is no other way but there way. To own, to carry or not to own or not to carry should be left to one’s own choices. Governments will use the
    excuse of trying to protect the people from maniacs and crime, but are in
    reality, it is the bureaucrats protecting their power and position.” As one
    Luby Massacre Survivor to Senate: “I’m Not a Victim of Guns, But of Lawmakers
    Who ‘Legislate Me Out of the Right to Protect Myself and My Family’”

    As for myself, I’ve been a victim once, never again!

    -Clay Cooper

    • Miketrt

      Yeah, it’s called the Democrat party pal. The party of slavery, anti-civil rights, etc. Republican suck too, but no nearly as badly.

  • Patrick Fallon

    most so called police to day are so, scared of there jobs , they will or do any thin g to cover there tracks , and you never hear ot the thugs gettting fired

    • Miketrt

      Dude, take a grammar class.

      • david95

        Dude. It’s a forum. Not a classroom. Don’t judge. Pay attention to his message, not the grammar. It will get you much further on these forums. 🙂

        • Miketrt

          Further? Not sure what that means.

          I’m commenting as I see fit. Don’t judge, that’s funny. That’s part of the purpose of this forumn. Making opinions and judgements. I didn’t comment on the thesis of his comments for a reason.

          Anywho, how about you don’t judge me for my comments then. Right?

          • david95

            You need some communication skills. If someone types further when it should have been farther, a fifth grader could figure out what they meant. Why couldn’t you?
            I am guilty of judging those that judge. Call it whatever else you wish. I don’t judge you based on the letters you smash on a keyboard. Only the meaning in which it meant. Especially on a public forum open to the world.

  • Free_Able

    Just stop paying for stuff that will most likely not help anyone and harm many!

  • Dawnrose D’Aloia

    These cops should be fired and the city should pay.

  • Charles Means

    Isnt this the same people that say we do not need ccw, jyst to call the police and they’ll protect us?

    • Sick-of-it-inGREENBAY

      Let the people of NY carry a Concealed hand gun, let them be responsible for protecting themselves it’s a proven fact the cops won’t protect you… Two Years ago the state of Wisconsin got Concealed carry now over 200,000 state residents carry handguns for their own security..No blood baths are taking place here…An armed society is a Polite society…

  • Gary Holveck

    While true they owe no duty to a specific resident, failure to respond to prevent or intercede to a crime in progress, or safety hazard occurring in their presence may be actionable.

    • Miketrt

      BULLSHIT. Protect and Serve. Says it all over the place.

  • Alden Smith

    Police are a Quick Reaction Force. They are their to respond to crime after the fact no during it most of the time. Only a human being is capable of protecting himself

  • Red Fred

    It’s real men like Joseph Lozito who allow me to sleep without fear at night. Thank you Sir for taking down this man. You are absolutely incredible, heroic, and there’s no doubt about it, you are the epitome of an American.

  • emty44

    The public does not have a right to protection from police, it is police’s job to investigate crime, and seek justice through the prosecutors office for victims of crime. That being said, however, if you have the means to defend and protect others on a subway or any other place, you really have a moral obligation to do so. No ne has the right to demand said protection, but you should be willing to give it.

    • Miketrt

      BULLSHIT. Protect and Serve.

  • frank jackson

    Then what the hell is their job?

    • david95

      To receive your hard earned tax paid dollars.

  • Miketrt

    Where is Gelman from? Is here here legally???????????

  • Tina

    Hence is why they should embrace the Second Amendment! Law abiding Citizen’s should be able to protect themselves!

  • Big_Gay_Al

    All I can say is, I’m glad I don’t live in NYC, or NY state. At least in Michigan, I can legally carry a firearm for self defense. In NYC, I’d have to be a celebrity or a politician with influence to do that.

  • fred

    congrats Mr Lozito, the cops in this country now just STEAL from law-abiding citizens by assessing FINES for living, if any REAL crime is commited they are VERY hard to find, and solving a murder or assalt case is nearly impossible for these low IQ CLOWNS! WE need real leadership, and to follow the founding father’s Constitution, and all the lawyers need to be disbarred for defending the criminals first and the victims of crimes second or LAST! have a nice day, it won’t be b-c of any cops!

  • Liberty1941

    Most black cops are cowards, and will do nothing to earn their pay, or endanger their lives. These are political jobs, not Law Enforcement..

  • denise

    Excuse me, but what the f#ck happened to PROTECT AND SERVE???????

  • Lon Pirkl

    Do police have to go to stupid school before they join the force?

  • Dena Campbell

    Here is the confusion. If a crime is occurring, the cops have a duty to answer the call and try to prevent it and/or prevent a person from being harmed. In this case, the cops were alerted and had duty to respond. They were there in the area of the crime. But, in general, for a cop to have a duty to ensure your safety in general is humanly impossible. The Supreme Court is correct in that context. The duty to protect is the duty of each individual. To believe that cops must prevent things from happening to us is like saying the cops are superheroes and erroneously suggests that the cops assigned to thousands of people in a community must divide themselves somehow and be a guardian angel to each one. How can cops be in two places at the same time? They can’t. To say they have a Constitutional DUTY to protect each and every person in the community they serve is unrealistic. They have a duty to keep the order in society and be vigilant but to ensure that nothing will happen to us is fantasy. We must learn to discern reality from misunderstanding.

  • Coro Fasho

    If the Police are not legally obligated to protect the citizenry,then it only makes sense,that the citizenry should not be financially obligated to financially support the Police.The businesses and corporations they do protect should foot the bill,effective immediately

  • MKE gal

    This isn’t news. Courts at all levels, including SCOTUS, have ruled that police have no duty to protect anyone who’s not in custody.
    Go read the wiki for Warren v. District of Columbia. (But do it on an empty stomach, ’cause it’s vile.)

  • Dennis Crabtree

    Helping people would interfere with their art projects…you know, the pretty chalk lines and all.

  • Kevin M. Koop


  • Glenn Mason

    fire all NEW JERK POLICE, if they not there to serve and protect, then send them packing
    we don’t need yellow belly police officers as i know that just 2 will shit in their pants till 20 more show up to help them arrest a old lady

  • FTP

    Start murdering NYPD

  • Mark Langlois

    When ever I see something like this, it seems to tell of a disconnect between what people expect and what the reality is.
    Police are not your bodyguard, baby sitter, psychologist, or parent. They are not there to keep you safe from criminals. They have one purpose and one only: to catch people who have committed crimes.

  • Lickylick

    Police are there to arrest and throw people into jail for anything they can come up with. Which is exactly why you should never call them for anything, because once they arrive on scene, everyone present is their target. They could care less who they put in jail.

  • Troubleshooter

    Fucking pigs. And we PAY these motherfuckers.

  • rocket625

    The city is refusing to settle the suit, arguing that police had no duty to protect the people on the train.

    so what do they do, some front for LGBT faggotry and Obama’s EBT?

  • Mario Lawrence

    What exactly do we have “Attempted [Crime]” laws for then?
    “Attempted Murder” “Attempted Theft” “Attempted [insert crime here]”

    It’s against the law for someone to even ATTEMPT to kill or harm someone else.
    So on those grounds alone a cop is duty-bound to arrest an assailant, whether or not he gives a damn about the victim’s life, if the violation is happening right in front of him. This isn’t a small discretionary thing, like a speeding violation, someone attempting to murder someone qualifies as an emergency. If NYPD wants to fight this in court, I do not expect a jury to rule in their favor, regardless of what the books may technically say.

    Now, if we have to get into details like: ‘how long an officer is allowed to delay before attempting an arrest’, in such a situation…. then this a serious problem of enormous magnitude.
    This reflects a paradigm shift in the morality of PDs, themselves, and like everything “bad” nowadays, I only expect it to get worse.

  • John Erps

    that is the main reason for people to own guns, oh I forgot they toke them away from Ny. so now you people can’t have guns and the police is not there to protect you . how great that is. and how many time do you hear of people who help out the cops when they are getting they butts whipped. we are not there to protect you either. the people do it out of the kindness of there heart. they are not getting paid,. but for the cops you paid to enforce the law. so at that time there was a law being broken , that makes it you job /. what you toke an Oath to do.. they should be fired. there were 4 people killed and all you can do is come up with it not your job to protect these people I say get your guns back and believe that the cops are not going to do anything unless you take care of it yourself so they don’t have to worry about it. thank God are police is not like that. we have a few that gets out of hand but they are made to answer for it. here its do your job or go some where else.

  • Hence the difference between private security in a free market and “public” police. At least private security would have a strong incentive to protect the client, after all, if they don’t they will definitely get fired.

  • ToughStuff2012

    The problem is beyond the police. The patrol cops are just state drones. The bigger target should be legislatures who prevent people in New York from defending themselves. As I see it, they’re in league with the thugs and the murderers. They empower the criminals and bad cops, and they disarm the law abiding and decent citizens of New York.