Do two behavioral standards exist for the genders?
A YouTube video showing an altercation between Jets and Patriots fans culminates with a man punching a woman in the face at Met Life Stadium. The video went viral.
The skirmish is still under investigation, but it appears a group of men and women assaulted another group over the controversial game. What transpired before the assault is a concern for the authorities, but the video evidence clearly indicates two females, 26-year old Jaclyn Nugent and 24-year old Amanda McDowell aggressed against others, including 38-year old Kurt Paschke. Paschke, after backing away, punched Nugent in the face.
Four parties have been charged with assault. Normally this skirmish would not dominate headlines. But as the online rage brewed, an observation stuck: the media’s sexist, dangerous hypocrisy cages advancement of gender issues, reinforces stereotypes and treats men with little respect, even as victims.
VIDEO:
A TALE OF TWO CRIMINALS
NY Daily News took the story lead. The tabloid-style exaggeration of events was unsurprising. Clicks are profitable. The crazier the headline, the more online rage, the more money earned.
They hit the jackpot with:
“Jets goon and “Gang Green fanatic”, 38-year old Kurt Paschke, violently assaults “perky Pats fan” and “beautiful, Boston blonde”, 26-year old Jaclyn Nugent. The frame: assault the character and history of the punching male, Kurt, and exalt the innocent, angelic victim Jaclyn.
Woman good, man bad.
As the story spread, legitimate outlets parroted a pre-determined narrative. Photos featured lovely, educated and professional Jaclyn sweetly smiling. “Her Facebook page indicates she loves short skirts, the beach and partying.”
Who doesn’t love a girl like that? That sweetheart could never morph into a violent criminal with zero regard for the safety and body of another human being. She’s pretty!
Kurt’s carefully chosen photo-spread reveals tattoos, a piercing and his decked-out “fanatic” Jet’s van. He’s flipping the bird and wearing a baseball t-shirt saying, “I’d hit that”, in one. Reporters invaded his ex-wife’s porch, publishing an awkward snapshot of her tattoos and shocked face. “Has he ever hit you?” one reporter asked.
They’ve been divorced 10 years.
His parents and colleagues were stalked, but their testimony was boring. Paschke may be no gentleman, but the consensus supported he was a gregarious, popular guy. He’s a “genuinely nice guy” that would never lash out because “he stays out of trouble”, said one friend. His mother told the media swarm, “He was just hitting back to defend himself. It wasn’t done deliberately. If you see the video, they just went wild.” Only two outlets published that detail.
Two versions of the video circulated, one showed an online mob grabbing their pitchforks, dragging every gender issue into the fracas.
“He punched a girl…completely unacceptable…he didn’t even KNOCK HER DOWN…further proof he’s not much of a man since he couldn’t deliver a manly punch. This whole situation further proves that Tattoos are the perfect marks of stupidity,” wrote Wes Lee. This sentiment was most prevalent.
“It is never acceptable for a man to hit a woman. This mentality is why domestic violence continues to destroy women’s lives,” said one woman. “Want to know why we have rape culture? Because men think they can do whatever they want. Never hit a woman, men. Stop being animals. I hope he’s raped in prison.”
The critical detail missing was that Nugent and her female friend were the aggressors.
Did anyone show up their workplace or home and inquire about anger issues? Were their ex-boyfriends harassed with questions like, “Has Jaclyn ever been angry and punched you in the face?” Was rape wished upon them for attacking another person? Their names were hardly mentioned in several reports and in a few years, this will likely be forgotten. Will Paschke be so lucky?
The Jets Fan Twitter account tweeted, “Jackasses like this make all Jets fans look bad. If u know him please turn him in so he never comes back.” Paschke is a season ticket holder super-fan. He and his Jets van are popular stadium staples. Jets owner Woody Johnson and several players have been photographed with Paschke.
His name has now been smeared online, particularly once a criminal record was discovered. Headlines reinforced his “felony” status even though he paid his debt to society and has been out of trouble ever since. “He’s a great guy, always smiling and happy. Never seen him get in fights,” an online poster mentioned. “No one knew about his past.”
They do now. Because the majority agrees: it is never acceptable to strike a woman.
BUT, IS IT ACCEPTABLE TO STRIKE A WOMAN?
I asked this question on my Facebook page, receiving 246 various replies. Some, with good intentions, assert that men are “stronger” than women, so they should endure assault and never retaliate. Women are a special class of citizen above the law and civil standards. This deference and pandering is not equality, though. It’s injustice.
Findings that women are as violent as men have been termed “gender symmetry”; a sweet label for an ugly truth. We accept a high degree of violence against men by women. Women that assault men are more likely to avoid arrest, even when men contact the police. Men are more often seen as the aggressor and arrested though they’ve committed no crime.
As one researcher noted, “A case is made for a paradigm having developed amongst family violence activists and researchers that precludes the notion of female violence, trivializes injuries to males and maintains a monolithic view of a complex social problem.” Is it any wonder female-on-male violence is woefully underreported?
If men are so often on the receiving end of acts of physical aggression, why are we only concerned about women?
What resources actually exist aiding male abuse victims? Do men not feel? Do they not endure the same symptoms of abuse, perhaps even more so as they’re not “permitted” to express them without being perceived as weak? Or, worse yet, still the aggressor regardless of the circumstances as the mob proved?
Sensible individuals understand violence is a last resort, but if a woman assaults a man, its human nature to react. Not every man can physically overpower women and many women can handle their own. Females aren’t special flowers and men aren’t violent, drooling animals. Peddling this narrative is insulting to both parties.
Gender issues are serious concerns for a society that seeks to evolve and advance. But after decades of political pandering for “equality”, the pursuit of equal opportunity has morphed into a disregard for men and overt deference to women, even when the latter commits violence against the former. If we aspire to treat men and women equally, address why women feel it’s acceptable to strike others, especially men, with no chance of retaliation.
Self-defense cannot ever be prohibited, regardless of what’s between your legs.
Authors Bio:
Tiffany Madison is a writer, libertarian pundit and social media strategist from Dallas, Texas. Her column for Washington Times Communities covers current events, civil liberties, veteran’s issues and foreign policy. Her work has been featured or referenced by Policy Mic, The Rutherford Institute, Freedom Outpost, Military.com, and AmberLyon.com. 
The Libertarian Republic is giving away a replica of George Washington’s flintlock pistol. Click here to learn more and enter your email for a chance to win a model of our first president’s beautifully engraved firearm. Or simply enter your information below and you’ll be registered!
125 comments
My mother used to tell me to never to hit a girl… unless she hits first. That’s good enough for me
Funny… My mom told me men were worthless pieces of shit, and if I ever hit a woman for any reason she would cut off my Mr. Peepers… Can we trade moms?
There is a word for your mother, but I can’t type it out as it is really bad. Starts with a C though.
Never hit a woman. If she starts acting like a man, that’s different.
I know that. :/ Common sense tells me that.
your mom would have cared for you if you disobeyed a little 😛
I’m just wondering, for the version of the video that the media didn’t use, what actually transpired before Mr. Paschke hit Ms. Nugent?
I always Cunt Bust Girls !!! Teach them a lesson and bleed! one kick in the vag can kill ! Awesome!!!!!! http://boingboing.net/2012/08/31/woman-dies-after-police-kick-h.html
If she starts the altercation, she has no defense, even in court. Get over it.
Well said, Tiffany Madison.
Certainly not over anything to do with a football game, that’s for sure.
I REALLY hope you know the whole situation. She attacked him over the football game, and he punched her for attacking him, or at least that is what I saw from the “whole” video.
Terrific well-written and sourced post, thank you.
Like I said on your fb I don’t think a man should ever hit a girl. But if a girl got aggressive than I would have stepped in between them. I don’t believe that man should have hit her. He was restrained and dragged away, why weren’t the girlS (multiple) However, I do believe the same society condemning him should have quickly stepped in and stopped it rather than video it. But then, how would they be a YouTube sensation?
Someone else was stopping it, why shouldn’t you video tape it?
why should you? Is there not enough negative in this world that we need to promote bad behavior on both sides?
Because I can and it’s not illegal. That’s why.
You’re right. It’s not illegal. I hope one day you never have to experience seeing you daughter being assaultedon a video where people could have helped but instead they recorded it. Then you might possibly reconsider. I feel pity for people that just don’t know any better.I will pray you never have to experience watching someone you love getting punched, assaulted, raped, murderedvia video recording just because recording isn’t illegal. This is turning into such a corrupt world with people who think this stuff is cool. It’s sad. But your right. It’s not illegal. Good argument. Do something because it’s not illegal. Rather than because recordinga criminal act is so much cooler than helping tthe criminal act to stop. Bravo!
Red herring. Can you make a coherent argument without using logical fallacies. Keep on the subject. The subject is recording the incident and has nothing to do with his daughter or future assaults. There were enough people already in the crowd dealing with the situation. Recording it for legal purposes fine. Otherwise it will turn into a he said , she said in court and the he will lose. Now, try again and fail again, little miss. It is more than apparent you never went to college judging by you misandrist morals and argumentative skills.
“dealing with the situation””keep on task” Mr. Bubba. Do you have anger issues? I seem to have put you in a bit of an uproar by having an opinion. You should really work on that. 🙂
Sigh.
“Mr. Bubba. Do you have anger issues?”
You are getting tiresome with your high school level ad hominen attacks.
Hush now hick chick the adults are trying to have a conversation.
I have yet to see an adult yet. I understand….it must be hard for you to see someone not back down from someone who has nothing but insults and nothing else to say. You’ll stay in my prayers.
Yup. That must be it. Not that you are stubbornly adhering to idiocy and refusing to acknowledge that what “feels” morally right may in fact be the exact opposite of what needs to happen for everyone to have the same rights, obligations and reasonable expectation of not being assaulted.
@hickchick:disqus.
u seem to be a moro_n, an idio_t. Keep this special gift of idioc_y from God to you always with you, but do not give badname to us, the women, with your stu_pidity.
A real simple way to avoid “seeing your daughter assaulted” in the manner that happened here is to simply teach her to not be a violent thug herself.
Missed the whole point by a country mile yet again. If it weren’t such a habit your posts would be entertaining. In a watch a dog try to solve a calculus problem sort of way.
Not to insult canines in any way, they at least seem to understand that violent people should be dealt with in any manner required to end their violence as quickly as possible and, all without a genitalia check before putting an end to an attack on their family members.
If you’re being restrained and someone unrestrained is attacking you, then you better hit them! Would you just sit there and take it?
I was simply saying why weren’t the multiple girls restrained? I would have hoped people would step in to assist and not watch. Yea… That’s a problem. Would I take it… No…. But I as a woman wouldn’t assault a man either!
Because, simply restraining a violent woman can be perilous. There is no end of white knight idiots only too willing to commit violence on any womans’ behalf.
That’s the problem. Woman are doingthe first punch but it takes a woman to have balls to get in the middle and stop the fight. So the men can be the girl and the girl can be the man. Nice talking with you Mr. Vajayjay
Good lord but aren’t you slow.
No one should be required to have members of both sexes on hand at all times incase they are attacked. And, then have only members of the same sex engage in physical violence.
If people do not wish to get hit by others they must 1st not go around hitting others. It really is that simple.
Should someone hit you that you have not struck then they are accepting the responsibility for any resulting action you take in defending yourself with no regard to what is between their legs.
If you do not wish to see women hit BACK, ensure that they do not hit first. You are rather stupidly targeting the wrong audience when you claim men should not hit women back when they hit 1st.
Over a sporting event??? This is stupid. I’m sorry for calling you Mr. Vajayjay… Your feelings must have been hurt for you to come back and prove me right. Have a nice day ms. I mean Mr. rav. I think you just like to dispute. I agree women shouldn’t hit men. I also believe men shouldn’t hit women. So your dispute with me is??
Uhhh, I see reading comprehension is not your strong suit.
No where have you been proven right. In fact the comments section is full of examples of why exactly you are wrong.
You traditionalist trolls are every bit as screwed in the head as rabid feminists. You (like them) still want all the benefits of benevolent sexism with no reciprocal obligation or benefit to the men who pay for your benefits.
Sickening leeches the lot of you. Thankful there are still some self-realised libertarian ladies around.
I’m a traditionalist , feminist, misandrist, leech? Make up your mind. do you men just make random accusations hoping eventually one will stick. Adorable.And yet…. My mind is unchanged. So I guess…. Yepp. I got the last laugh. Type away.
I never once called you a feminist.
But go ahead and keep making shit up.
You do seem to have a knack for it.
You could fit the leech part as a traditionalist though ;-).
So you believe men and women should hit?
No, you halfwit.
I clearly stated that no one SHOULD hit however, if one is BEING HIT they are both morally and legally entitled to end that assault any way within reason they can . Even if the violent criminal assaulting them happens to be a woman.
So you think they shouldn’t hit?
No, you said that a man should never hit a woman. And then you said that other stuff.
I still think a man shouldn’t hit a woman. That won’t change. “the other stuff” seemed like it needed more explanation. I hope that helps you to understand my commenta little better.
Which is why you got the negative response. You think women are a protected class over men.
If you say so…. I don’t think a man should hit a woman. I’ve also said I don’t think a woman should hit a man. Would I hit you over a difference of opinion? The man was being restrained during the video… Why?? Did he strike her prior to the video? Either way, based on what you see in the video was escalatedfrom events prior to the video. Tony, you are entitled to your opinion as I am mine. I was prepared for backlash and name calling however, I stand unphased. I can appreciate your opinion if it was addressed in a manner I addressed it. A mature discussion. I don’t think I name called but if I did I know I apologized because I was raised to know better. I read things like “if a woman puts herself in a man’s position”…. Blah blah blah. Acknowledging she put herself in a MAN’S POSiTION just affirms that you are no more gender neutral as I am. You think men fight and women don’t. I don’t see many saying she put herself in a woman’s position?NO, Because you acknowledge it’s not a woman’s place to be like that. Thanks for your response.
Right. Stepped in. And stopped it.
How exactly? Through sheer charisma and force of will? Pull your head out of that rear of yours hick, life doesnt always go like your sunday cartoons.
Sunday cartoons? I never said life does. However, you can choose to handle things differently. You know…. A girl can get attention by wearing daisy dukes and a sheer halter with a bra. Does that mean your validated in raping her? Just because a girl gets in your face about your team validates you punching her? Be careful ladies…. Don’t be fanatical about anything because then a man can punch you in the face! Maybe I’m just a girl of simplicity.. morals and values are just unacceptable in this day in age and it’s all about being famous. Even if that means you have to do something that is wrong. I’m not condemning the guy but I’m not condoning his actions either. All parties were wrong. I have a taser, gun, mace, and a few other special skills. If I need to step in I assure you. I will have back up of some sort.
Way to build a gigantic straw man.
We are not talking about punching a woman for being up in your face, we are talking about punching a woman that is physically attacking you. If you cannot see the difference, i seriously dont know what to tell you. Then again, you seem to be of the opinion that getting tasered and peppered is better than getting punched, so from the get go i get the feeling you have never actually been in such a situation.
Ding Ding Ding…. There you go. Ihave never put myself in a man’s position. HOWEVER, I have put myself in between a situation of same circumstances and ended it. 🙂
so you have seen two groups of people physically fighting and have managed to calm the situation down without needing to so much as touch anyone and without anyone doing any restraining for you?
Did I mention i was a unicorn? Sorry hick chick, i just dont buy it.
Yes I did. By doing what you’re doing right now. Underestimating me. Nice to meet you UNICORN! :p
No actually, not all parties were wrong. He clearly hit her in self defense, and YOU are clearly a misandrist.
mis´an`drist (mĭs´ăn`drĭst)
n. 1. one who hates men…. That’s your comeback? Not all impressed. I have an opinion that is not the same as yours and you think calling me a name is the mature way to handle it. Well, sir/ ma’am whatever you are… Maybe I’ll just punch you in the face! Haha! And Tony… You catch it on video ok? Geez!
Yup, a male hatting bitch. Can I get any more specific for you? Do you need me to draw you a picture?
I’d say he has you pegged right.
And that’s the convenience of the internet. To make judgements on someone you’ve never encountered. I would make a judgement on you but what’s the point.To try to insult you? I’ve got more important things to do with my time.
“Just because a girl gets in your face about your team validates you punching her? Be careful ladies…. Don’t be fanatical about anything because then a man can punch you in the face! Maybe I’m just a girl of simplicity.. ”
Oh you are simple alright. That or you are a liar.
She did not “get in his face”, she ASSAULTED him you dim-bulb.
He or SHE, who initiates violence has no cause to complain if they get their butt-kicked.
Name calling…. Intelligence in a nut shell.
Do not showcase ignorance and expect compliments. Yet another natural consequence of free choice.
You choose to spout ignorance with nothing to back it up and are butthurt that you were called on it.
What color is the sky in your world? Because under the sky in THIS world, using a “taser, gun, mace” is considered a violent act. Fuck lady, how can you be shooting your mouth off about others using violence when you don’t even know what the damned word means? Like you have some moral high ground because spraying mace into someone’s face instead of inserting a fist is somehow preferable to you. What an elevated philosophy you have there. No doubt your “special skills” are similarly hypocritical.
I wonder if you really are so narcissistic that you can’t see what’s wrong with telling two people not to engage in violent conflict when they mutually agree to it, while blithely doing so yourself to prevent it.
Men are not allowed preferential treatment based on gender, but it is permissible to convict men due to their gender. This $%^&# richly deserved the punch in the face and more. Maybe misandrist is not altogether appropriate, but it is close. Misguided feminist bent to some degree at least. Only if both parties are of the same gender, then self defense is allowable? Pause for thought… If you answer “yes”, that means you are wrong. That is a simple quick test for all….
Feminist. Bravo. Actually…. I’m just the opposite. But use those words if it makes you feel intelligent. :-*
I think he may have been referring to the lady in the video. I’m not sure where he got that opinion of her, or you, but I do agree to disagree with your original statement. If I come under fire I’m not gonna check the gender before I shoot back. I’m all for chivalry, honor, and respect, but I’ve never been one to shit back and let someone hit me in any situation.
Note: I’ve only hit a woman once before, and there were extenuating circumstances.
there is a serious flaw in your opening statement. the flaw is that, in reality NO ONE SHOULD HIT ANYONE FIRST, no matter the gender of the person who hits first or the gender of the receiver of the hit
Confused??? I said it is ok for her to throw the first fist? Please… I think your perception of my comment is the problem and not necessarily my comment but thank you for your inaccurate response. Can I just add how amusing I find it to have 5 different men responding to me in defense of him hitting a girl but none had the balls to do it for him in person and nip it in the bud before it escalated. What an amazing specimen you boys are. Standing up to a woman behind a keyboard. I want to thank you however, you just confirm that my husband and son are two of the last remaining gentlemen that know right from wrong.
maybe you should get off your high horse and really read my words. i am saying no one should hit first, which reveals my complete gender neutrality on the issue. i do not give excuse to any gender on this matter, and i would say this to ANYONE and everyone, no matter their gender or status in life. your comment to my post seems a bit shallow. and to answer your last part of the comment, those who saw the fight should have stepped in instead of just letting it happen and even videoing it
So we agree. I applaud you. If I seemed on a high horse, maybe it’s the fact of being attacked for my opinion. I however DID NOT approve of any of the situationGender neutral or not . If I offended you, I apologize.
Uhhh you do realise you are insisting that women are too stupid to know that hitting people is wrong and can easily result in being hit back, right?
Not only that he did not “hit a girl” he hit the adult person that was criminally assaulting him which, is 100% within his rights. Whether you like it or not.
We don’t need to teach men to not hit women, we need to teach women to not be violent children.
“100% within his rights. Whether you like it or not.” “we need to teach women to not be violent ” agreed. I don’t like it! I will not teachmy husband to hit a woman. I too agree women shouldn’t hit men. You do realize that you are deliberately being aggressive because I, LIKE YOU have an opinion on this subject. Makes you LOOK stupid. Why ?
Pointing out your faulty logic is not aggressive.
The claim to victimhood in this case is because you know you haven’t got a leg to stand on.
P.S. Half of your opinion is wrong and I will explain why.
If no men will ever hit any woman even if she is assaulting him. Then you have not succeeded in making the world a better place. You have only succeeded in creating more violent women because they know they will never have to face the natural consequences of their own criminal actions.
teach your husband?!? that reveals your female superiority complex right there.
Yea… He teaches me too…. And… Now what? He never has hit a woman. Teaching him was merely me being sarcastic.it’s prevalent with people whom have a sense of humor.
“I don’t think a man should ever hit a girl. ”
Then you “think” wrong.
If she did not wish to risk getting hit and remain blameless the, she should have refrained from, ohhhh you know, INITIATING violence.
Stupid twit started something she couldn’t finish and, I bet she is wiser for it today than she was before this occurred.
Do you honestly think that I’m going to back down. Did I EVER say she was blameless? I still do NOT believe a man should ever hit a woman. My dad never had, my brother never has , my son never has, and any man that would validates the very reason I wouldn’t try to get to know any of you. You all condone it. I will never. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen because apparently it does and all of you would hit a girl to given the chance. Do I call you all women beaters?
You are one to talk.
By denying men the full right to defend their own bodies from harm IF and ONLY fucking if the person harming them is a woman is beyond stupid.
I’d love to see you make the same insistent behaviour if a group of girls decide it might be fun to kick your son in the testicles for an afternoon. I bet you would have a change of heart and admit that had he set the 1st one to kick him on her arse with a solid right cross the assault would most likely have ended there.(See you aren’t the only one that can strawman, we just do it better although it is usually best avoided).
Teach men not to hit BACK is wrong.
Teach everyone not to hit is right and that includes women.
Once a person initiates any violence their expectation to not also be targeted with violence is forfeit.
One of my favorite Will Smith movie quotes: ‘Don’t start nothing, won’t be nothing”. This applies to men and women, along with aliens…
actually, it was, “do nt START none, wont BE none!” much cooler.
im with roadsider, if a woman hits first (and i dont mean a slapping) all bets are off
Self defense. We still have that right until the politicians figure a way to take it form us.
I don’t have time for a comprehensive answer to the title but I am sure that the circumstances under which it is OK for a man to hit a woman are precisely the same as those under which it is OK for a woman to hit a man. Gender is of no moral consequence.
that sounded pretty” comprehensive” to me..
I never hit a woman unless I have no choice. If I can’t hold her down and prevent her from hurting me and she is bent on causing me physical harm or is really kicking my butt, THEN I’ll hit her, but until then I don’t hit women.
Respect! 🙂
Women are not special. Men are just as entitled to self defense as women are.
The bias does not stop here. You don’t have to look any further than rape cases or (arguably worse) child custody. The legal bias against men in this country has spiraled out of control.
Either we are equal or we are not. Which is it?
We are not. Men are not allowed preferential treatment based on gender, but it is permissible to convict them due to their gender…
Anytime someone becomes an active combatant, their gender becomes forfeit.
I’ve only ever punched one Woman. She was coming at me with a knife at the time so…
she acted like a man and went after him. weather or not he seen that it was a woman coming at I don’t know , but even so she entered the fight and went after him . she got what she asked for … “a fight”
*whether
*saw
*that
That is all.
Grammar Nazi… AWAY!
Uh.. he didn;t just hit her. She hit him twice when he was waling away. They need to press charges against that bitch. She is a woman! Equality goes both ways! Welcome to the new age where woman are treated equal. Happy now?
If she starts the fight yes if not no
It looked like she came after him first, so I believe he acted out of self defense. OK by me.
Equal rights means equal standards. If a woman wants to be treated like a lady, she needs to act like a lady. If a woman wants to act like a man then she needs to expect to be treated like a man. We all have a right to defend ourselves regardless of gender. The gender of the aggressor has, or should not have, any bearing on the situation.
if she initiates violence, she enters a mans world and will be treated equally. I thought they wanted equal treatment
Equal treatment, yes.
Equal responsibility, no.
in 23 years of law enforcement on the streets I only hit one female ..could have shot her.but i slugged her after she tried to stab me in the back with an ice pick..but my body armor saved the day. sadly her nose got broken so badly that not even the best plastic surgeon of that time wasn’t able to ake her look as good as she used to.
Why “sadly her nose got broken”, you said yourself that you were well withing your rights to have shot her?
Would you have been just as reluctant to shoot an armed male attacking you with a weapon?
Without your body armour would you have been any less injured if the person wielding the weapon was born with a penis or a vagina?
So, you eff’ed up her face. She now looks like the violent criminal she is, good job. Her countenance now warns others before even speaking to her.
Lets say a 12 year old daughter is on the bus minding her own business when a 15 year old girl assaults her from behind. A 17 year old boy does what?? Multiple choice….
1) punches the girl attackers lights out
2) puts the girl attacker in a arm hold and restrain her or
3) gets his phone and video the assault.
Oh but wait. If she is restrained and still hitting you can you snap her neck and kill her because she started it? No lines drawn? If you even hesitate one moment on hitting a girl than you know it’s wrong. That doesn’t mean you won’t hit her. It just means it’s wrong and you know it. If you don’t hesitate then that is a shame. Under aggressive circumstances you react, male or female.
If the girls were boys… The boy restraining probably would have hit the aggressor and not given it a second thought. Now you can all go and call me names, and try to bully your opinion onto my way of thinking but if you think hitting a girl is ok… You are wrong! PERIOD! If a girl hits a boy, it is wrong PERIOD!
Sigh, okay once again I will break down your stupid for you.
“12 year old daughter is on the bus minding her own business when a 15 year old girl assaults her from behind. A 17 year old boy does what?”
Who cares, your hypothetical 17 year old boy is not obligated to do anything at all. But, the 15 year old violent criminal you describe has already forfeit her expectation of not being hit when she initiated violence. Whether that natural consequence comes from a male or female is completely irrelevant.
” If you even hesitate one moment on hitting a girl than you know it’s wrong.”
No. That means you are or have been the subject of social conditioning.
“If the girls were boys… The boy restraining probably would have hit the aggressor and not given it a second thought.”
Oh, I see. Why did you not just come out and admit you are a sexist bigot in the first place. It would have been much simpler to have ignored your hillbilly rantings.
sexist bigot…. Wow another name. Shocker! Hitting a girl is still wrong…. LoL
boys, are under no forced compulsion ( just due to being being boys) more than another third girl, to help/not help another third party unknown two girls fighting each other.
The boy above will chose choose option “none of the above” (1)(2)(3) and let these two girls above , do whatever they want to do to each other.
“Now you can all go and call me names” SAW THAT COMING!
If you are male you are guilty. I was once arrested after a former girlfriend hit HERSELF in the face and called the cops on me. The only reason it was dropped is because a neighbor saw her do it and testified.
Many women are under the assumption that they can do things to a man that would get another man punched out. If you have no choice and need to knock a btch out make sure there are witnesses or even better video.
When dealing with violent or high conflict women whether or not it could turn violent…
ALWAYS BE RECORDING.
You don’t even need to be hit let alone hit back to suffer consequences of false accusations.
Answer no questions and turn over recordings to your lawyer the moment any false allegations are leveled.
My upbringing told me no. My training tells me no……but intellectually I am thinking if she perpetrates the offense, then yes a man should be allowed to strike back. That being said, violence in any form is always wrong regardless of gender.
That I disagree. Violence in the face of defending yourself is a moral right. No matter what people think there will always be war and those who want to oppose their will on others in a brutal fashion and there must be those to defend those who need it. This is reality. There is no Kum by ya world and people in this world are often ruled by emotions rather than logic. Sometimes violence is necessary as long as they don’t take it too far. A spanking is violence if you think about it.
more than a right, a duty! violent aggression MUST be made costly, or civilization is doomed.
We can rationalize the irrational all day long. Emotions affect our thinking and our thinking affects our actions. So yes there is a world where Kum by ya could work. It is called emotional and cognitive regulation. Of course there are those who don’t have the skill to do this, so yes they will always use violence when they lack the cognitive skill to resolve conflict. That is a reality, violence happens when you don’t have other skills, and spanking is a violence that happens when parents lose control and lack a skill. Thats a reality.
No in this world Kum by ya cannot exist as long as we want more than we need. That is the nature of us as humans. There will always be conflict as much as there will always be poor. Talk does not diffuse every situation because we have emotions but There is a time for direct action and a time for passive action. Obviously though you don’t have a clue about raising children as not every child can simply be shamed into being good in your objective as you think. As the saying goes you spare the rod you spoil the child. Just as a bully isn’t ashamed of his bullying until the one being bullied steps forward and physically assaults him/her to get them to stop is not different from the military of its nation defending it’s sovereignty and the rights of its citizens from an another nation who wants its territory and impose its rules. You dream of a reality that cannot exist unless we are all the same ad that is an impossibility. Not with physical bodies anyway. What you believe is utter irrationality. You have to look around you instead of living in your own world.
You just proved my point. You stated “As long as we want more.” That is a cognitive process which affects action. So we can decide to have less, that is a cognitive process, which affects behaviour. I get it, you want to believe nothing in the world will change and people will always be in wars and aggressive….I get it, it’s just that history disagrees with you. Now back onto Emotions affect thoughts, and thoughts affect actions. Emotionally I am satisfied with the results of our exchange. Cognitively I am resigned to thinking you have your opinion that I don’t share, and I have no intentions of responding to anymore. Thanks for the exchange though.
P.S…..who said shame is a parental tool? Take a few parenting classes, read about Building Resilience in Children. Maybe you might learn something about parenting. Also, you seldom really win an exchange if your only approach is trying to insult the recipient. When you do that, it just tells me you are not solid in your conviction.
Best of luck to you.
First if I insulted you I did not mean too yet I felt the need to give my opinion. Also Child resilience cannot be taught until children have the capacity to understand right from wrong to some degree. Trust me I have learned enough about parenting through my own life and up bringing to see that. Doing wrong has make a child sad or shamed in order for them choose not to be. I understand you bring yourself to disagree and I understand that. I’m not a believer in the concept that everyone will accept less or that others will not take advantage of what your cognitive beliefs would do. Either way I’m a soldier protecting your right to believe that I understand why. In the end I believe you have to be able to defend your own principles and beliefs even from physical aggression as others who do not believe in the cognitive process are willing to crush and mold you into what they want. The world I believe in that we all can be without conflict isn’t here on this earth in our current forms but after.
It’s been a pleasure. Have a good day.
Self-defense cannot ever be prohibited, regardless of what’s between your legs.
— 20 years later, it will be a facebook meme
Equality means if any person tries to hit me I can defend myself. She stepped up to the batters box and struck out… End of story!
She needed to be hit…..women have lost thier damned minds….women and kids….stay in your place.
Not sure if I should up vote or down vote…
But Zimmerman walked…..and some guy at a football game hits some drunk bimbo and the whole world and fem-bots come out……….FDB.
If a girl wants to think she’s “man enough” to throw down w/ a guy, then she shouldn’t be a whining little bitch when she gets her teeth knocked out. I am not one to hit a woman for nothing, I was raised to never hit a woman but i always pegged the question why can a girl hit a guy then? Never answered. I’m a solid believer, if you start it, you’d better be prepared to finish it and don’t go crying when you get your ass handed to you, take it like a man/woman and move on!
It’s ok to hit a woman at the same time it’s ok to hit anyone. In self defense.
If she punches first – it’s game on. Never start something you can’t finish. Yes, I’m a woman.
I’ve learned a few things from responses to this story … 1. You can’t fix STUPID, 2. since this purports to be a “Libertarian” site, I can draw only 1 conclusion … Libertarians are barbaric, uncivilized, abusive, stupid, insecure, caustic, vitriolic, mean, hateful haters who spent hours on here being STUPID, and 3. Hick Chick is brilliant, sophisticated, intellectually superior and classy.
Take your formal education and stick it where the sun don’t
shine because mommy & daddy or the taxpayers paid for that education that
allows you all to be just a bunch of ‘repeaters’ of what someone else said
sometime in the past and got it published in some book. Try having an
original thought that is all your’s – that you own all by yourself and no one
else can lay claim to it.
Now, go get in your corners, start rocking and thumb-sucking.
Hi Tiffany Madison,
I raised two boys. I told them that it is perfectly acceptable to hit a woman under exactly the same conditions you would hit a man.
1. They hit you first.
2. You walk away from the discussion and you no longer wish to be involved and they pursue you and nag and will not leave you in peace. You can hit them to tell them to get away from you and leave you alone.
3. The woman attempted to cause you injury harm and loss.
There is nothing special about any women. Indeed? Western women in particular are liars and hypocrites in the 99.9% majority on the issue of being treated as equal before the law to men. Not even ONE woman of note can be found in the ENTIRE english speaking western world who is prepared to say women should be treated as equal before the law and is willing to sit on a jury to make that so. Did you know that?
All the women writers, celebrities and politicians we have now and not ONE of them demands women are held accountable for their crimes. Not even ONE of them. What a bunch of liars, hypocrites and losers western women are Tiffany Madison.
Did you read and comprehend the article?
Because I am pretty sure that Tiffany Madison is both a western woman and one of those writers you speak of. And, her article speaks directly to the stupidity of the status quo regarding women and their use of direct violence (I would have enjoyed a more thorough take on all violence including the initiation of proxy violence which is very common among women).
It sounds like you are making the same mistake as politicians and conflating “feminist” with “women”.
Among the subset of humans known as feminists, they are all almost entire despicable humans or idiots. While among the subset of humans known as women (yes even western women) there exists every type from brutal criminality to nearly saintly. Decent women may be more rare now but that is due to feminist influence and the purposeful destruction of whole families.
Hi Raven,
In the west there can not be found one single woman of any note who says women must be held equal before the law. This makes any woman who has taken the benefit of “equality” and who does not take the position women must be held equal before the law a liar and a hypocrite.
Now, you, Tiffany Madison, and many other women have read my comment here. I have called you western women liars and hypocrites in the 99.9% majority.
I stand by that comment as a PROVEN FACT. And I will stand by it until such time as western women DEMAND that criminal women are held equal before the law to men meaning the same crime gets the same remedy regardless of the sex of the victim and the perpetrator.
That I have been DEMANDING this for SIX YEARS and there is yet to be even ONE woman of note accept that women must be held accountable for their crimes in an equal before the law basis tells me the 99.9%+ number is absolutely true.
You western women should never have crossed swords with me. You were given many, many opportunities to cease and desist your crimes against men and you refused. So now we are going to hold you equal before the law whether you like it or not. And we are going to denounce you in the 99.9% majority until you ARE held equal before the law. Period.
Ohh, I get it.
You are the representative of the opposite end of the stupid spectrum as hick chick.
Typing in all caps DOES NOT MAKE SHIT TRUE.
Try sources and peer reviews.
Yes, many women quietly benefit from the misandry spewed by feminism. That doesn’t make your horse-shit any more believable.
You are also making a huge mistake in over-estimating your own intelligence and influence.
Without even breaking a sweat I can think of 10 women in North America that have done more for mens’ rights than I am willing to bet you have and, easily 80-90 men.
Do us all a favour and confide your prejudice to the fringe with the likes of hick chick.
Name ONE..just ONE woman of any note at all who lives in the USA who has openly said that women who commit crimes must be held to the same standard as men and who is willing to sit on a jury to make it so.
JUST ONE.
And provide the reference where she said it in public in her own name.
You won’t be able to do it. So I will continue to denounce you western women as the liars and hypocrites you chose to be in the 99.9% majority until criminal women get exactly the same remedy instruction as men in our new courts.
And if you do not like me denouncing your like this? Then tough. You women started this WAR OF AGGRESSION. Us men are now waging a WAR OF RETURN and we HOPE to keep it non-violent. However, since women us violence against us all the time? We reserve the right to use violence to stop you from committing crimes against us. Period.
“You women”
You fucking retard look at the display pic.
Yup, I have a dangler.
Continue tilting at windmills fool.
Personally, since I am not American I don’t give a rats ass about what AMERICAN women say.
You said, “WESTERN”, and you can do your own leg work.
Karen Straughan aka GirlWritesWhat, and Typhonblue. You really should check out their take on subjects like neoteny as they relate to women.
Dr. Tara Palmatier, you can go through all the podcasts yourself. You made a claim with no proof so, do your own damned research. Your lazy thinking is not my responsibility to correct.
Sincerely, Men’s Human Rights Ontario.
“You fucking retard look at the display pic. Yup, I have a dangler.”
Just because you have a penis and are over 18 years of age does not mean you are a man. Women say “gender is a social construct” and you behave like a woman…so I will call you a woman.
If you behaved like a man I would call you a man. And if you are somehow “insulted” at being called a woman that makes you sexist.
And I am not at all impressed with the whole “mens human rights” thing. Paul Elam is an agent. Dean Esmay is a criminal slanderer. And Karen is a liability. If you knew who you were talking to and what I have done you would thank me rather than attempt name calling like a 5 year old.
But then again? Most MRAs are in to name calling like 5 year olds rather than solving the issues of securing the rights of men.