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Cop guns down man over a car accident (GRAPHIC, VIDEO)

Posted by Faith Braverman • 17 Jan 2014

 

COEUR d’ALENE, IDAHO– A police shooting last August has grabbed national attention after disturbing video of the incident was released Wednesday. Wendy Allenbaugh thought she was doing the right thing by allowing the police into her home to help her friend Eric Johnston. He had just fled the scene of an accident and was in her kitchen with a knife.

When Officer Spencer Mortensen arrived, Allenbaugh let him know immediately that he wasn’t violent, and she was only worried about him hurting himself. Mortensen was aware there was no gun, yet went into the apartment with his own gun drawn, not even stopping to consider a taser.

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In the video, Mortensen enters the apartment and calls for Johnston to come out. After locating him, he yells for him to drop the knife or he will be shot. Mortensen makes no violent gestures, but doesn’t drop the knife. He appears to be in a state of shock as he moves slowly toward the officer. With little hesitation, Mortensen fires his weapon five times into Johnston, who died immediately.

Allenbaugh can be heard saying, “You didn’t shoot him, did you?” The officer screams for her to stay back, and later arrested her for no apparent reason.

Johnston’s mother, Catherine Pratt, is now suing the police department, saying her son was “a very soft-hearted and compassionate person.”

Officer Mortensen was not prosecuted, and the incident was deemed ‘suicide by cop’. Eric Johnston’s death can be compared to Dallas police shooting Bobby Gerald Bennet in his driveway last year. He too was holding a knife before officers proceeded to shoot him without warning. Both of these cases were caught on tape and show how police will often use excessive force in situations that call for compassion. The video from Johnston’s incident can be viewed below, and is extremely graphic. What you see and hear may be deeply disturbing.



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  • greg kline

    there is sure is a lot of second guessing. what a bunch of idiots

  • Marshall Dearman

    It was necessary if he didn’t have A hearing problem.

  • A-non-amiss

    Just so horribly stupid! What in the world makes a person think this act was okay? Maybe cops need a psych test and a respect test before even being considered for the job, and then again once every year or two.

  • Robbie

    “There is no crueler tyranny than that which is exercised under cover of law, and with the colors of justice …” U.S. v. Jannotti, 673 F.2d 578, 614 (3d Cir. 1982)

  • Tyler

    Police brutality is crushing a 16 year old’s testicles during a warrantless pat down.

    Being caught in a shitty situation is entering a house (legally) and having someone armed with two knives approach you and not respond to your commands to drop them.

    Was it the perfect decision? No; he could’ve left the house, but it was hardly the wrong one.

  • http://eticketride.org/wpblog/ Walt

    Not really sure what video some of you guys were watching, but the woman said he had a knife. The cop gave him the opportunity to “come out”. He visually verified the guy had a knife. Told him repeatedly to put it down, but instead, he kept advancing toward the officer with the knife. Sorry dudes. That is just not smart. There is such a thing as the “21 foot rule” for edged weapons. Some of you who are not LEO or even shooters, just look that up. A suspect armed with a knife is no joke.

  • Chuck Bump

    We need more Andy Taylors as law enforcement officers and less Barney Fifes. There seems to be a shortage of common sense and ability to problem solve among today’s police.

  • Atom Brisbine

    Lethal force has been unnecessary since the 90′s.

  • Jason Hommel

    I don’t like the misleading headline; it makes libertarians look bad. A more appropriate one would be “Cop guns down suicidal knife-carrying man who refused to drop the knives while silently approaching the officer”. The officer certainly did not shoot the man over the car accident, nor because of that. The psych doctors say that suicide is anger turned inward–anger strong enough to kill. A suicidal person can be a dangerous person, and can lash out at others wildly and unpredictably and unprovoked. Fleeing the scene of a car accident is a crime. The person could also have been on drugs. Some drugs can make a person suicidal, or as strong as fifteen men. Or drugs can make a person non responsive.

    • Jeremiah Ellison

      Or they could have a concussion and need medical attention. They could basically be sleep-walking or on auto-pilot, lacking comprehension of what’s going on.

  • Ben Enjerry

    That poor guy COULD have had a gun, and then that cop would have walked right into an ambush. But, that didn’t happen. The officer had the guy with the knife corralled, so why didn’t he wait for backup to arrive and wait the guy out? Why LOOK for trouble?

  • Anon22385

    Honestly the cop sounded reasonable in the first couple of minutes, trying to be calm and talk the kid down. It was when he pulled his gun that his demeanor changed. He created a situation in which he HAD to use deadly force. This is a pattern with cops. Create a situation that you MUST escalate and use force…always. Even not complying with a request for your DL is somehow a threat of force and will be met with violence. Obey and Comply.

  • Justin Martin

    Without warning?

    Come on, he was told many times to put down the knife.

    When I was taking my CCW the instructor told me how we have the right to open fire on anyone we deem a threat that comes within 20 feet. The told us how one of the officers he was training didn’t agree with that, so they setup a target and got a stopwatch to see how long it would take them all to move 20 feet and strike.

    It only takes a few seconds, and tasers don’t always work.

    This guy shouldn’t have brought a knife to someone who had a gun on him. Its his own fault.

  • Joe

    What if the officer did nothing, and the male then slit his wrists inside the home and died? Bottom line is the officer needed to attempt (his duty) to diffuse the situation with that guy after he had knowledge that he was holding a knife and threatened to harm himself per the female near the front door. To have the ability to diffuse this type of call he needed to make contact with the subject, even after conscience clear instructions, which the officer clearly gave the subject he continued to approach. Also many of you have forgotten that there is NO DUTY FOR THE POLICE TO RETREAT AT ALL IN THIS TYPE OF SITUATION. By doing so in this scenario he would have then put himself and the female outside in danger which was not needed. This was handled in a manner within the law, all the while many of you don’t like it after all he was a uniformed officer with a man walking towards him with a knife. This is a classic case of suicide by cop, I am also confident that this male in the home has a long history of mental illness.

  • stevegbrown

    Assuming that the cop uses something bigger than 9mm, 2 – 3 shots to the lower abdomen would be much less lethal and the attacker would be doubled over in so much pain, he wouldn’t be able to move. Next time the cop could do that without worrying about his own safety.

  • dozr

    To prevent you from killing yourself we will do it for you.

  • Amphibspook

    How long do we allow the militarization of local police to continue? These departments continue to accept Federal money with the intent of circumventing Posse Commitatus for the Feds. You wanna be more equal than equal, become a cop. Time these thugs got some equal treatment.

  • Vladimir Linderman

    “To protect and serve” is replaced by “shot and kill if do not have a chance to beat up”…

  • Guest

    “To protect and serve” is replaced by “hot and kill if do not have chance to beat up” …

  • Vladimir Linderman

    Another coward cop . Got scared from the knife…

  • Vladimir Linderman

    What about warning shots? It’s so easy to shot somebody…

  • shaman_hotep

    Who Trains A Complete Idiot Like That. This is Appalling!

  • Artie P

    The cop warned the kid how many times? And the kid, with knife in hand continued to move closer to the cop. The cop had to shoot him, case closed! And no, cops are not trained to try to shoot a limb, they are trained to double tap the largest region, the chest. And if you don’t like my response, too f-ing bad, it’s the way it is. The only thing that I would have done different was to wait for backup before going in. On that count, the cop did make a mistake, but since he was in the situation of being the only cop in there, he made the only choice that he could.

  • Shaun

    To the people saying the cop was protecting himself, the man is holding an unweighted kitchen knife, which is incredibly difficult to throw, which would be his best bet if he was intent on harming the officer. Similarly, the officer wears a protective vest, which a knife would not penetrate, especially a kitchen knife. He could have easily disarmed the man, if he was properly trained in martial arts considering most of his body is protected anyway. I see no reason why this man had to be gunned down, in a lady’s house, with her just outside.

  • Bradley Hill

    Maybe the officer could have asked this guy if he wanted to sit down over tea and discuss his life’s problems. Then the guy would not have pulled the knife on the cop?
    Am to conclude that you would have had the cop going home in a body bag while the screwed up guy with a knife was free to pull his knife on someone else?
    You might be OK with that…

  • Eric Jackson

    Comparable to Bennet my butt. This was 100% justified. Some idiot walks toward you with a knife when you are screaming for him to drop it and pointing a gun at them, you shoot the POS. Don’t want to get shot, maybe don’t hit and run from an accident, then pull a knife on a cop.

    • Mark Stuber

      He didn’t pull a knife on the cop. He already had the knife when the cop arrived. And no. A cop does not get to decide (well he shouldn’t get to) to shoot someone just because he is holding a knife or fled the scene of an accident.

      • Eric Jackson

        Did you watch the video, or are you just pulling this out of your ass? The cop repeatedly yelled to drop the knife including while the cop was backing up and the little turd was advancing on him. Find anybody with their head outside their ass and they would do the same thing. He wasn’t just “holding a knife” you moron.

        • Mark Stuber

          No, I wasn’t talking out of my ass and i did watch the video. That’s how I know the victim already had the knife out before the LEO arrived.

          • Eric Jackson

            So where was the shooting not justified? Was the cop supposed to wait to be cut first? Where exactly is your hard on for cops coming from?

            • Mark Stuber

              That’s a false dichatimy. He had plenty of space between him and the victim. It wasn’t a notning or be cut situation. He could have kept his distance by backing up plain and simple. The suspect was moving slowly. The suspect did not raise the knife or point it at the cop.

          • Eric Jackson

            Then you know he wasn’t a victim. He was an assailant that got what he deserved.

            • Mark Stuber

              The “got what he deserved” comment says volumes about where you are coming from on this and it is not pretty. I cop can’t shoot someone just because he feels the person believes it. The cop can shoot when it is necessary for self defense (whether the suspect deserves to be shot or not is not relevant) and in this case it was not necessary. It wasn’t even close.

    • stopthesocialism

      If the guy was a POS, he wouldn’t have been distraught from the car accident. Criminals have no remorse. The cops knew what the situation was. The cops should have been able to subdue the man, and take the knife away without shooting him 5 times.

  • Bradley Hill

    QUESTON STUPIDITY—-People below me

  • stopthesocialism

    Cops don’t become killers. Killers become cops.

  • Richard Tennyson

    The victim could have been deaf or not understand English and his movements prior to shooting did not constitute a threat to the officer. There were other options than death for an obviously troubled man. I am an ex LEO and this officer will have a very heavy burden to carry the rest of his life. Sad and senseless.

    • Cure for Cancer

      I am no LEO but please enlighten us…options for this officer?…but I have no doubt you are correct a very heavy burden for him to carry the rest of his life.

      • stopthesocialism

        How about back out where he came in. Secure the area. Call in a hostage negotiator, or someone with the ability to diffuse the situation.

        • Cure for Cancer

          I was asking Richard supposedly ex leo and all. I do like your SN though socialism must be stopped. He was justified.

      • Bradley Hill

        Thank You for your service to your city/county Cure for Cancer…the posts in this forum are unbiased and sickening. It comes from a younger generation that has never had it tough. Anti-authority types.
        I was brought up in the 50′s and police were well esteemed. They did the same things that police do today. There are those officers who feel entitled and above the law. On the contrary, there are some great guys who were purged out of their departments because the like to use a little common sense in the way they handle situations between people, mainly domestic disputes. Many departments allow their officers a bit of latitude in using their own tactics in order to settle common disputes, but still are fairly strong on departmental policies. There is a balance.
        In the bigger cities there is department policy and it had better be followed to the enth-degree. I understand that because in a bigger city, the problems can be paramount and policy is scrutinized more by politics.
        Anyway, I see in the video that the officer was justified in the shooting because he is on record of ordering the guy with the knife to set in down, 5 times.
        Again, I am old school and when a police officer orders me to do something…I DO IT! Doing so is for his safety, others and mine. The girl in the video, no doubt, related to the deceased was his wife or girlfriend did not heed the officers orders to sit down and stay put. I could hear him telling her at least a few times to sit down. This of course distracted the officer in handling the guy with the knife (the lady said he had).
        I have only one question about the officers actions. Why did he shoot the perp so many times? I have heard of other officers shooting a perp many times at close range. I know a person can be on drugs, so perhaps this officer was thinking the same thing and was afraid for his life. I would be!

    • Bradley Hill

      The only thing that was senseless for me was your post

  • Cure for Cancer

    This shooting imo is justified…he was warned and did not comply…he continued to approach the officer…..btw no I am not a cop…but very pro2A

    • stopthesocialism

      I am very pro – 2A as well. It would have been different if the guy was a burglar breaking into someone else’s house and coming at the homeowner with a knife. The cops knew this man was distraught. “Suicide by cop” would not be so easy if the cops weren’t so eager to kill people.

  • Dennis Johnston

    I don’t know the entire story and I wasn’t there, but IF I was approaching an armed officer w/a knife and he told ne to drop the knife, I’d drop it.

    • Mark Stuber

      Most likely all of us would have. What’s your point? Because they guy didn’t do what you or I would have done, he deserved to be killed?

  • James Jjink

    cops are cowards

  • moe

    There was nothing done wrong here. Unless you were trained to do this job and know how it feels to have a person with a weapon not listen to commands you are giving them. This was nothing but suicide by cop. This person was evidently outside his mind. But I am glad that officer went home that day.

  • blkdragon

    That was a clean shoot. The suspect approached the officer with knife raised. That is an aggressive stance and the officer had every right to assume the suspect was going to assault him if he was allowed to get close enough. The officer gave multiple warnings and order for the suspect to drop the knife and talk.
    Suicide by cop or not the officer had not choice.

    • Mark Stuber

      I didn’t see a raised knife.

  • Ralph E Berkeypile Jr

    Police are an intolerable criminal element in our society. They are far more dangerous than any other criminal element from whom they are supposedly protecting us. The time for cops is over and never should have come. The time has come for all cops to be outlawed.

  • Lucy Mauterer

    I feel in this case if the justice system isn’t working for this dead young man, the officer should be disciplined. If I were the mother of the victim, I would hunt that bastard down and put him out of his misery. Let a jury of my peers decide if I committed a crime or not. Oh and what great fodder for the TV show, Dexter. Wonder why its such a big hit?

  • batfly

    Let this be a lesson to all of you. If you call the cops… you might as well sign your own death warrant.

    • stopthesocialism

      Good point.

    • Bradley Hill

      I couldn’t agree with you more. Every citizen must take responsibility to protect themselves. If that means buying a hand gun or a baseball bat, then they should do it.
      The police don’t claim to be there for anyone. In fact, the police will tell residents to find ways to keep themselves protected because they can’t always respond in time. They actually write themselves a disclaimer.

  • Pk Mitchell

    Her mistake to invite them in…; know your rights (while you still have them).

    • Mark Stuber

      I don’t think she was expecting the cop to shoot her friend. She must be a good citizen who have never had to deal with cops before.

  • Carmen Fovozzo

    This was IMO a clean shoot by the LEO…..Numerous warnings were issued…..2 knifes at that distance and walking toward the officer. What would you do ? Taser is something you don’t bring to a knife fight….they don’t always work….

  • Rob Meier

    OK in the beginning of the clip the lady is already in the house and she is NOT afraid of the boy. Why does the cop need to draw his gun? Why doesnt he use the lady to negotiate with the kid? Diffuse the situation. Kill him with kindness? NO that’s not on his mind. Comply or face the consequences.

    • Mark Stuber

      I don’t blame the LEO for having his gun drawn. A lot of people have misresented the 21 foot rule on here but, I would have had my weapon drawn because of the 21 foot rule. That being said, becasue, I already had the gun drawn, I would have been more patient with the victim. The cop had more than enough distance to pull the trigger if the victim had lunged at him.

  • david

    Totally unnecessary as the tazer would have prevented the death and disarmed the subject. A case of Poor training response to a situation. Unjustified shoot dont shoot situation.

  • Mark Vance

    I don’t see how killing someone who was going to kill them self solves the problem

  • Troubleshooter

    I guess beanbag guns are just too expensive.

  • Stu Chisholm

    No, technically the officer was legally able to shoot. What is in question is his judgment. Why not opt for the taser? Why not just back out? The guy hadn’t harmed anyone, and wasn’t guilty of some major crime. It’s easy for us to all sit around and Monday morning quarterback/second guess the officer, but that said, the officer didn’t even try to avail himself of better options.

  • Saki K

    Man is in close proximity to officer walking toward him holding a knife. I’d shoot too.

    • Mark Stuber

      And
      you, unless you were wearing a badge, would probably have been
      prosecuted because you had avenues of escape. You can’t shoot
      someone just because he is walking toward you whether he is armed or
      not.

  • Frank_in_Spokane

    “…Eric Johnston … had just fled the scene of an accident and was in her kitchen **with a knife.**

    “When Officer Spencer Mortensen arrived, Allenbaugh let him know immediately that he wasn’t violent, and she was only worried about him hurting himself. Mortensen was aware there was **no gun,** yet went into the apartment with his own gun drawn, not even stopping to consider a taser.”

    Had that been an armed citizen, and A STRANGER WITH A KNIFE (a deadly weapon) was walking toward him, ignoring warnings to drop the knife or be shot, it would most likely have been ruled a righteous shoot — no charges.

    I’m all for holding renegade cops accountable. This guy ain’t one of them.

    And your BS headline — cop shoots man “over car accident” — gives away your BS agenda — “if a cop used violence, it MUST have been unjust.”

    • ProperModulation

      It was poor poor judgement. Why not back off? There were million things the cop could have done that did not end up with him putting five rounds into this guys chest!

  • Michael

    Why five times? It’s obvious that the cop didn’t simply want to incapacitate the guy; he wanted to kill him. So many what ifs.

  • Cory Martin

    You walk toward a cop with a knife and this is exactly what I would expect to happen. Duhhh.

    You can hate on cops, but he did exactly what I would have done. Non-compliant suspect approaching with a knife? Suspected of being suicidal as well? Think about what you would do…

    The taser is for armchair cops. When you enter a house with a potentially violent subject you don’t trust your life on a single shot electric gun.

    Hindsight is 20/20. Get off your high horses and accept that sometimes reality is simply unpleasant.

  • Asylum

    And this is why we never enter a home alone. Have two officers, with one office holding a taser. Just tase the guy and cuff him. Officer assisted suicide makes a moron out of both parties.

  • Paul Allen

    The officer should have waited for backup to handle the person behind him in the doorway before he entered the residence. Once he was backed up nearly to the door, he had nowhere to go as there was an unknown behind him.

    He should have waited, probably attempted a little longer to talk the guy out.

    Hindsight is always 20/20 though.

  • rwjones61

    One would think he could have waited a few minutes untill the proper people got there. It looks like he could have tried to stop him with a taser or maybe shoot him in the leg a couple of times would stop him. Shooting him five or six times center body to make sure he is dead seems a bit much. If the other guy had a gun I bet you he would have waited for help. Then he should shoot to kill.

  • kroysc

    I’m going to quote this article twice.

    “In the video, Mortensen enters the apartment and calls for Johnston to come out. After locating him, he yells for him to drop the knife or he will be shot.”

    and

    “Eric Johnston’s death can be compared to Dallas police shooting Bobby Gerald Bennet in his driveway last year. He too was holding a knife before officers proceeded to shoot him without warning”

    I’m not committing on either of these two cases, they are both sad and tragic.

    The first quote from early in the article makes it pretty clear what the officer said. The second quote is completely invalidated by the first one, and the video itself.

    My question is why did the author grossly contradicted themselves? A little bit of journalistic integrity would be nice to see.

  • disqus_Kj8RZinYnI

    The officer knew he had his own camera rolling. He did what he had to do.

    • ProperModulation

      NO he did not “HAVE” to enter the apartment. He could have kept talking to the man without going to confront a known armed individual He put himself in a situation where there little choices other than killing a citizen who most likely was NOT going to harm him.

      • disqus_Kj8RZinYnI

        It’s his JOB!

  • bobfairlane

    If the guy wrecked into someone’s car or injured someone with a car, then of course the cops chased him down, whether or not the woman liked it. Charging the cops with a knife after running from a vehicle accident is a really bad idea.

    • nuwriter

      But he didn’t wreck into someone else’s car, or injure anyone. He hit a pole.
      Approaching a suicidal man with a gun is a bad idea.

    • Mark Stuber

      The cops didn’t chase him down. The woman called the cops.

  • disqus_Kj8RZinYnI

    Textbook police work. Suspect not obeying commands and too close to officer with a DEADLY weapon. It was either the suspect or the police officer. This was not over a fender bender.

    • Mark Stuber

      Who
      cares if ti’s text book or not? We should higher cops who have common
      sense and can show restraint when restraint is warranted. You
      are also producing a false dichotomy. It wasn’t a case of the
      “suspect” or the LOE. It likely would have been
      neither of the cop did not pull the trigger. The cop already
      had his gun drawn. There was plenty of distance between the cop
      and the victim. If the victim was getting close enough to make
      the cop nervous, the cop could have simply stepped back.

  • disqus_Kj8RZinYnI

    No tazers should ever be used when the suspect has a KNIFE no matter if he is walking or running at an officer. USE your weapon and he did.

  • disqus_Kj8RZinYnI

    Police protocol calls for this. Next time he should obey the police commands.

    • nuwriter

      Clearly commands were not the best way to go in this situation.
      If this is what the protocols call for, the protocols are wrong.

    • Jesse Halbig

      I agree with nuwriter. The forceful ‘commanding’, weapon-pointed, hostile approach is not the way to engage in this situation. And just because protocol or procedure or doctrine allows or permits such an approach doesn’t make it right. Just because you can do something, doesn’t mean you should.Just because you can legally get away with something, doesn’t make it moral. Failure to comply to police requests or ‘commands’ should not result in death. At least not in a free and intelligence society.

      • Mark Stuber

        Who the heck down voted this post?

    • Mark Stuber

      Just becasue it is “police protocol” doesn’t make it right. The police just can’t make up their own laws and call it “police protocol.”

  • Mark Parsons

    Sad to say this was a justified shooting; regardless of the original call out this kid willing advanced towards the officer with a weapon in had and failed to comply with lawful order to drop the knife. You can see the officer backed up a few steps before discharging his weapon 5 time’s. It seemed as if the officer may have backed against a wall and not out the door like I do believe he was trying for at that point I would have fired too!

    • nuwriter

      The original call out was a barked order. Which was followed by an approach with a drawn gun.
      He made no attempt to diffuse the situation. He used brute force where it was not appropriate.

      • Mark Parsons

        You missed the part where the woman said he had a knife and was cutting himself; this alone was cause for the officer to draw his weapon and “bark orders” as you put it. When the guy advanced towards the officer with a knife in hand backing him into a wall and not following his order the drop the knife the officer was justified in use of force. The average person can close distance in the blink of an eye and when someone is coming at you with a weapon and are with in 21 feet of you lethal force is authorized.

        • nuwriter

          I did not “miss that part” at all.

          I think you did. The woman said she was afraid he might – not that he was cutting himself. The officer jumped to the same conclusion you did – the wrong one. You make a lot of assumptions that are just incorrect, then make false conclusions based on them.

          But even if he was cutting himself, barking orders is the exact wrong thing to do in that circumstance. That this course of action led to a needless death should give you some pause. It doesn’t. But it really should.

          He was not “backed into a wall”, but rather a door.

          The officer giving an order to drop the knife does not justify shooting him. If the victim had ordered the assailant to drop his gun, would he have been justified in stabbing him had he failed to comply? Do you even see the jaded, language you are using?
          The officer put himself within 21 feet. He created the situation. Sitting at a table with a knife is not a threatening situation. He never actually pointed the knife at the officer. He never said that he would stab the officer. The officer did point his gun at the victim. He did say that he would shoot him, and then he did shoot him.

          • Mark Parsons

            Bottom line is the kid was armed; non-compliant and charged the officer committing suicide by cop as they say. That is the bottom line the officer was justified in this shooting; none of my states here jaded as you claimed. To make this statement tells me you are one of those gun grabbing liberals that believes what they want to even though the proof is staring them in the eye so I’m not going to comment any longer as you will not listen to reason.

            • nuwriter

              Mark, you’re powers of deduction are stunning. Yep, “gun grabbing liberal”… except that nothing could be further from the truth.

              This case shows exactly what is wrong with gun control, when the aggressive state is more heavily armed than the public. You position here is more “gun control” than mine. This guy’s only crime was having a knife – he “disobeyed” an atrempt by the government to disarm him, and for that he was threatened with his life, and then killed.

              Without realizing it, you exemplify why neocons and liberals aren’t all that different. You both support the power of the state, even if you claim otherwise. When the rubber meets the road, you’re the one looking to disarm peaceful citizens.

              The bottom line is that you are the one who will not listen to reason. You aren’t listening at all – you’ve made up your mind and no other possibilities are allowed to be considered.

        • Mark Stuber

          The 21 foot rule says you don’t have enough time to draw a gun out of the holster, aim, and then shoot, if an agressor lunges at you. The victim was not within 21 feet and the officer already had his gun drawn. I was expecting to cite the 21 foot rule myself until I saw the video.

  • Brian Cooper

    A knife is a form of deadly force. A Tazer is not. The subject had numerous chances to put the knife down and speak with the officer. The non compliant subject then began approaching the officer with the knife. That shows hostile intent. Anyone heard of the 21 foot rule??? Google it. The officer entered the home to complete a crime investigation (of which if any of you nay sayers was the victim of, would be demanding the officer go in) and because he had information that the subject was going to possibly hurt or kill himself. Put yourself in that officer’s shoes, and you would be pissing your pants.

    • nuwriter

      Which crime?
      There was no victim. She called for help FOR HIM. She didn’t run out of the house screaming. She came out concerned.

      The officer made no attempts to start a dialogue. He started barking out orders right away.
      Yes, put yourself in the officer’s shoes. You’re there to help someone. Do you immediately start barking orders at them, and raise up your gun?

      • Aries144

        No, absolutely not. And that’s the issue- we need to find a way to pressure police agencies to develop training to handle dealing with normal citizens who aren’t professional criminals.

        This officer has probably had all his training focused on “get in, assert total control of the situation, and make sure YOU go home at night” drilled into his head so many times, that’s all he knows how to do. That’s needed when dealing with people that will fake crying for their mommy right before jumping at you and trying to kill you, but absolutely wrong for dealing with you and me.

      • Brian Cooper

        The subject was a suspect in a hit and run accident. I never heard the officer “bark” orders or charge into the room. I saw the officer cautiously enter and take his time locating the subject. He also kept his distance from the subject, until advanced upon.

      • Brian Cooper

        The subject was a suspect in a hit and run accident. I never heard the officer “bark” orders or charge into the room. I saw the officer cautiously enter and take his time locating the subject. He also kept his distance from the subject, until advanced upon.

        • nuwriter

          Did you watch the video? The officer was barking orders from the very beginning. That he ends it with a loud “PLEASE” does not make it an inquiry.
          How did this strategy work?
          How did advancing with a gun drawn work? Make no mistake, the officer approached Eric first.

    • Mark Stuber

      re: “Anyone heard of the 21 foot rule???” Yes. I heard of the 21 foot rule and was expecting to cite it until I saw the video. The 21 foot rule applies to when the gun is holstered: Not to when the gun is already drawn. The 21 foot rule says an attacker can close a 21 foot distance in the amount of time it takes a trained cop to unholster his weapon, aim, and fire two shots with his weapon. In this scenario, the gun was already drawn and aimed. It also looked like the victim may have been further than 21 feet. This site will not allow me to post links so you are intersested, I suggest Googleing “Reaction Time – Lethal Force Encounter SHooting Scene Cosiderations” Gaylan Warren Columbia Int’l. Forensics Lab.

      • Brian Cooper

        True what you say about the 21 foot rule, none the less holstered or not, there is a limited amount of time to react. Look, none of us were there. The video only tells part of the story. I must respectfully disagree with you guys, and say that based on the video alone, I can only come to my own conclusion and stand behind this officer.

  • michael mcpaul

    yes it was necassary… are you serious he had multiple warnings to drop the knife and he kept coming at the officer..unless he was deaf he was warned

  • Bo Kelleher

    New Headline: Coward Cop stops suicidal man from killing himself with knife by shooting him to death.

  • Aries144

    No, in this case the officer did it right given the moment he found himself in. He gave that poor kid every chance. My hair stood on end as soon as I saw the kid walking edging out around the corner- it looked exactly like the kid was trying to get a straight-line charge set up.

    What screwed this situation was policies and training that dictate that all officers must always aggressively take control of every situation they’re involved in. The right thing to do would have been to ask the lady to wait out of the house and then talk to the guy from outside and let the emotion/adrenaline levels come down.

    Bad policy and overly aggressive training drove what looks like a decent officer into a lose/lose situation.

    Militarization of police strikes again.

    • nuwriter

      He should never have put himself in that situation.
      He did not give the kid every chance. He started barking orders out right away, then entered the house with his gun drawn.

      • Aries144

        I agree entirely- I meant given the situation he suddenly found himself in. If you’ve got someone holding a knife walking towards you and they don’t stop despite pointing a weapon at them and screaming bloody murder for them to stop, and it looks precisely like they’re trying to get around any obstacles so they have a straight-line charging path right at you, you really don’t have much choice, other than resigning yourself to being stabbed which is surprisingly hard to do when your heart jumps into your throat and your adrenaline is dumping your brain into lizard man fight-or-flight mode. At that point your ability to determine whether or not this is just a kid who might be in shock or in an altered emotional state just isn’t there.

        I think the problem here wasn’t so much the individual officer, but his training and the policy that’s been set up for situations like this telling him he was supposed to get in and dominate and aggressively take control of the situation.

        I think it’s wrong to blame the individual officer in this case- I doubt he knew he had any other option because of what he’d been taught or not taught.

        • Mark Stuber

          We shouldn’t hire people to be cops who are too dumb to think outside of their training or to apply common sense.

    • Bo Kelleher

      The presence of police around suicidal people usually CAUSES the suicide. Happened to my good friend a little over a year ago. As soon as he heard the sirens in his driveway, he pulled the trigger. Whenever a situation is bad enough for someone to think of killing themselves, the presence of a cop will usually ensure that the situation becomes far worse.

      • Aries144

        Yeah, new policy and training is absolutely needed for this. You can’t treat every situation like you’re dealing with a street smart professional criminal who’s going to fake something to draw your compassion and then use it to get close enough to kill you like a cobra.

        Wait outside needs to be the training for this. Wait outside, try and get everyone else out of the situation, and let things simmer down. If someone wants to kill themselves, that’s their business. If you can talk them out of it from outside, magnificent. But a suicidal person needs to know his only options once the police arrive aren’t 1. go through with it or 2. risk giving up their rights for the rest of their life by surrendering.

        There needs to be a ‘no punishment for self harm that doesn’t endanger others’ law or approach to help things like this.

    • Jesse Halbig

      I agree with much of your perspective.Specifically that police training, procedure, and practice often escalates situations that may otherwise be nonviolent, into violent and dangerous situations for all parties. The question I maintain: Do we not have a moral obligation as sentient and intelligent human beings to do the right thing regardless of policy, procedure, or law, or social expectation?
      Don’t issues like these not only represent what needs to change in our local and federal governments, but more importantly, what needs to change inside of us all. Regarding how we think, why we think what we think, empathy, compassion, humility, and dare I say – even love?
      What have the societies of the first world become when the civil authority that should rule over their respective government, unwittingly allows said government to operate unjustly, immorally, without logic, without reason, and without scrutiny – and all the while giving praise and adoration to such a government because it has taken upon itself, to with arbitrary power, write such injustices and immoralities and the related, onto paper; thereby making those wrong things legal, and permissible? What is said of a free society who would have it’s morality issued or prescribed to them by their government?

  • Joseph Tudda

    This is the second ridiculous post I have seen from this page today… did someone hack you?
    I am always first in line to condemn a rouge, out of control, LEO. When they abuse their authority, treat citizens like they are above them, or make up their own law as they see fit, they need to go, harshly. This was anything but that. This guy fled the scene of an accident, which is why the officer was there. Upon arriving, the officer is told that the guy has two knives and the woman is concerned that he is going to hurt himself. At that point the officer is bound to check on him. Because of the knife threat, he has his gun out, which is what any normal person in that situation should do for protection. He gets no response to his repeated attempts to talk to the guy, so he eventually has no choice but to enter and ascertain if he is okay. When he sees him, the guy has two knives in his hands, and is immediately instructed to drop them. He fails to respond or comply. He is repeatedly instructed to drop the knives, and instead of responding or complying, he begins to approach the officer with the knife extended. The officer is forcefully commanding the guy to drop them and telling him that if he does not stop he will be shot. The guy continues to advance on the retreating officer, ignoring every command given, and is finally shot.

    That was a nightmare scenario for anyone to be in, and the officer did what he needed to do. This isn’t the movies, where you try to wound, or shot the knives out of his hands. If the officer had stayed outside, and the guy cut himself, everyone would be screaming that he didn’t do anything to help him.

    That officer didn’t go there to kill the guy, but the circumstances unfolded rapidly, caused by the guy, and he wound up having to shoot someone. This officer is going to have to live with that everyday, second guessing himself, when he did everything he could to not shoot the guy, except turn and run away.

    This was tragic, but shame on all of you blaming the cop here.

    P.S. I deal with Tasers, and A.) they are not deployed against deadly force, because, well, that is retarded. And, B.) they can and do fail, Bringing a Taser to a knife fight will get you cut or dead.

  • 1911HeadBanger

    Sorry people. But if an idiot is coming toward me with a knife, that doesn’t mean he wants to hurt himself. When he’s told several times to drop the knife, then told several times to stop and still keeps coming, he’s a dead man. I don’t guess any of you arm chair second guessers have ever seen a victim of a knife attack have you?

  • Paul Kopacko

    Hey Officer Spencer Mortensen! After having watched this video footage all I can say is….are you a complete moron or just a total idiot? The guy didn’t rush you. You had a way out simply by backing out of the house. No one else was in danger. Who the F*CK do you think you are taking the mans life like that? You are a disgrace to the force. You owe that man and his family anything, ANYTHING, they ask of you for the rest of your life. What a wuss you are if you felt you needed to .shoot that man in such a manner. If I lived in that community I would demand you be removed from the police force as you are obviously incapable of following the directive of “to protect and serve”. You are a liability to the force and the community you have DIS-served. Your behavior in this matter is exemplary of all that is wrong with law enforcement today. Do yourself and everyone else a favor and resign your position and, in so doing, potentially save the life of every person with whom you ever come in contact.

    • Bradley Hill

      Didn’t I see you and Barney Frank holding hands in the park last week?

      • Paul Kopacko

        No. I think that was your father you are referring to.

  • TW

    To all of these cops or wannabe cops posting about the officer protecting his life. You don’t ever enter a residence where a person is known to be armed alone. That is his first mistake. Secondly, the excuse that a taser can fail is absurd. A taser will fail at roughly the same rate as your firearm. These excuses for this officer’s poor decisions are weak and frankly idiotic. There is no excuse. He is in the wrong from the get go and should be punished according to the law. The proper law.

  • Shaake Masters

    do they not give a warning shot anymore? does it have to be deadly every fukcing time?

  • Patricia Stovall

    Maybe if the cop had more practice at the target range he could have shot to wound not kill.

  • bring down the shadow govt

    Somebody aught to beat the dog shit out of people who call the cops and it ends like this. this may be an innocent case but i have see malicious cop calling where people try to set people up to die, in those cases im all for beating until their face makes babies cry.

  • Gladius

    This was murder by cop, not suicide – he has taser why does the f***ing cop enter the home with his gun drawn and not his teaser? But apparently cops can shoot anyone without repercussions.

    • Mic68

      Deadly force is meet with equal or greater force…period.

      • Gladius

        WTF? The Cop is told that the persons is in the house and hurting himself, instead of drawing his teaser, the cop draws his gun – intend to shoot – an then murders him – i did not see any deadly force from the suspect and then the cop fires 5 times!!!! – it was a totally calm situation until the cop shoots – Its like the kids which got shoot by cops while playing in their yard and people like you blame the kids – Cops are trigger happy because they get away with it.

  • Bernie Weber

    Looks like the cop shot him for no valid reason. The young teenager was walking slowly and almost sideways. What is disturbing more than the unauthorized shooting was he was shot 5 times and the officer made no attempt whatsoever to see if he could stop the bleeding or render some kind of assistance. It looks like the cop may have been trying to turn the video off or making an attempt to block the camera lens. The cop should have backed out the door completely. If you think this is justified then you need to get a clue. I hope the officer is charged with first degree murder and not second degree. At no time did the officer try to get any info on the subject like age, what was happening for the kid to have a knife, etc.. If it was not a big deal then why was his gun drawn and pointing at the kid the whole time. HE Greatly escalated the entire scene with his shouting and yelling. The cop panicked and was poorly trained.

    • Bradley Hill

      The valid reason was based
      on the knife in the guys hand. I know its hard to understand that for you, but it’s true.

  • Harry P.Ness

    Why didn’t he blow his skull off with a shot gun? After all the guy had steak knife he may have caused a cut on the cops leg or arm. Cops carry pepper spray, a asp,tasers shot guns with rubber bullets and have ballistic vests. But super cop need to dump a clip on this guy? Why do we waste all that money on those other toys when they go straight to the gun?

  • Roy Vahldieck Jr.

    Cop was justified,the man failed to obey command and he had a deadly weapon.

    • Mark Stuber

      So, a cop is judge jury, and executionar and it is ilegal to have a weapon? Is being slow to obey a cop a capitol offense?

      Neither of the things you accused the victim of justify capitol punishment.

      • Roy Vahldieck Jr.

        unfortunately the man who didn’t obey command was a threat,he left the scene of an accident which is a crime then gets a knife,the reason doesn’t matter,is ordered to put it down and doesn’t and starts moving towards the cop! The cop gave him plenty of time and was clear to put down the knife….sir that isn’t the time to negotiate with a criminal with a deadly weapon……period…..i dont feel one bit sorry for the man that died.also the cop did what he had to do and retreat isnt one of the choices.

  • Joe Bush

    from what i see in the video is even though the guy was moving in the direction of the office he was not going towards the officer he as moving along the wall as to go past the officer an it did not look like the guy was threatening the officer,i dont think the guy should have been shot 5 times and killed,one shot to the leg would have ended it real quick…..

  • David2u

    About as bad as the officers in Oklahoma city area who shot a drunk old man in his own home back in the 90′s. He was threatening to commit suicide with a Yo-Yo weed whacker- which would be practically impossible to do. . Said he raised it at them. Instead of just backing out and letting him sober up, they shot him something like 30 times.

  • POA

    He didn’t gun him down over a car accident. The accident had nothing to do with this shooting. The kid might be messed up because of it, but that isn’t why the officer shot him. Complete BS headline.

    This also cannot be compared to the Bennet incident. In that case the guy was not being physically aggressive and the cops fired from a safe distance with no justifiable reason. This kid continued, after plenty of warnings and at close proximity, to walk towards a man with a gun in his face.

    I will be the first to call BS on police and they could have done things differently, but the kid chose the outcome here.

    If you call the police to help someone that is a danger to themselves. There is a good possibility they will die. Sad but it’s the truth. Not because the cops make bad decisions, even when that is often the case, but because the person is aggressive or wants the police to do what they are basically too scared to do.

  • shovelhead77

    The title of the story is a blatant lie. The cop didn’t shoot the man over a car accident. He shot the man because the man was advancing towards him while wielding a knife.

  • Jesse Halbig

    Boxed in? The police officer is boxed-in? Give me a break! He didn’t have to engage the man with hostility or deadly force. The man needed help, not dead.

    • nuwriter

      Apparently the officer forgot about the open door behind him.

      • Bradley Hill

        Apparently, you forgot about the brain inside you head.

        • nuwriter

          Nice comeback. Are the other kids on the playground impressed by your acerbic wit?

    • Bradley Hill

      But DEAD was the result, right? Why? I will tell you why Jesse…Because the guy did not put his knife down when the officer ordered him so..5 times. That’s why the guy is dead because the officer knew personally was not going to be.

      • Jesse Halbig

        The officer knew before entering the home Eric had a knife and was potentially suicidal. The safest thing for both parties would have been for the officer not to engage with force or hostility, Because engaging in this manner: Eric either kills himself or the officer, or the officer kills Eric. Mortensen escalated the situation without perusing any other option. For civilians, this results in being prosecuted.

  • Clint Hamilton

    The shooting wasn’t justified BECAUSE he went into the house without a warrant or probable cause. He is the one who cause the confrontation by being where he wasn’t supposed to be lawfully.

    • Clint Hamilton

      But, on the other hand, she let him in. Her mistake.

    • Mark Stuber

      Since when does a Warrant justify a shooting?

      • Bradley Hill

        When a threat is imminent. The threat was the guy with the knife who did not put it down after being told to do so by the officer 5 times. Not getting it are you?

        • Mark Stuber

          I don’t think the threat was imminent. However, I am glad someone is trying to use that argument instead of the “he deserved it” or “he didn’t listen” argument. What about that question I asked you. “How is it possible to train someone for every possible police scenario before he/she is hired?

          • Bradley Hill

            Cops are just people like you and me. They are trained to adhere to Police Departmental Protocol. They must follow this to the letter or be written up. Three write up and they are purged out–fired.
            NOT all cops are good. I know that, personally. Even Captains & Sargent’s think they are above the law. On the whole, cops are people doing their jobs. Their jobs are changing fast….They can’t protect people anymore. They arrive only to write the report. Too many people, not enough funding causes a lot of bad shit to happen in cities/counties. That’s why I strongly endorse having one’s own protection.
            Most of these people in this forum are anti-gun because of their stance against the police officer who shot this guy with the knife.
            A time will soon come when more and more people will be enduring home invasions. The people in this room will be victims, because they won’t or don’t have the stomach to protect themselves and their loved ones.

            • Mark Stuber

              re: “Most of these people in this forum are anti-gun ” What are you talking about? This is a libertarian site!

    • Bradley Hill

      Please, don’t show your stupidity here….The cop was summons to that address by the guys girlfriend. The officer has complete authority to enter that house and find out what the disturbance was all about.

  • Jesse Halbig

    If the officer was “in fear for his life” couldn’t he just back away? Deadly force is justified? Seriously? Don’t be fucking ridiculous! The police have no more right to deadly force than the general public. No way Joe public does the same exact thing and doesn’t catch 2nd degree murder.

    • Taylor Post

      Actually, they DO have more right to deadly force than the general public in one specific way. They are sword to uphold and protect more than you are. They can’t just leave a bad situation and say “welp, not my fight” like you can. The officer was sworn to protect the woman sitting on the doorstep, you would not have been.

      • sbozich

        Um…actually he isn’t. Thanks for playing!

      • Katy

        The woman on the doorstep said she wasn’t worried about him hurting anyone but himself, get your facts right!

        • Bradley Hill

          Did you hear what the woman said to the 9-1-1 dispatch?
          Get your facts straight!!

      • Jesse Halbig

        I disagree. The right to protect ones life and the lives and safety of those around them is an individual human right. The police are paid to serve the public. In this case, the police officer protected his own safety, with deadly force. He did not do a service to the dead man, or to his family.

      • nuwriter

        Sworn to protect her?
        He killed her friend and arrested her.
        That’s not protecting her.
        The police do not have more right to use deadly force than the general public. They may have more cause to use deadly force – but they do not have more right to use deadly force.

      • Mark Stuber

        The general public also has the right to protect others. So, again according to the law (I know they do de facto) how do cops have more of a right to self defense than others? I realize they are more likely to be shielded by fellow cops.

      • Mark Stuber

        Re:
        “Actually,
        they DO have more right to deadly force than the general public”

        This may explain why most of us on a libertarian site disagree
        with you. This statement indicates that you either don’t understand natural law or don’t agree with the natural law doctrine. The right to self defense is inherent if you believe in natural law. If you don’t believe in natural law, I hope you do not hypocritically celebrate the Fourth of July because, if you disagree with natural law, you clearly don’t “hold these truths to be self evident that all men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights.”

  • Rework Oh Ryan

    I honestly don’t hold the cop at fault for this one. He said multiple times to come out and that he would shoot if he didn’t put down the knife. The kid had issues.

    • nuwriter

      Clearly loud orders to come out were the wrong course of action in this scenario. So was approaching the person with a drawn weapon.

      • Bradley Hill

        Yes, the cop needs to take a sensitivity course in order to halt him from commanding anyone to do anything, right nutwriter?

        • nuwriter

          It’s not about “commanding anyone to do anything” dimwit. Every situation is different, and requires a different course of action, Cartman.
          As it turns out (and when you grow up you may learn this) there are many types of communication, and not all of them are appropriate for all situations.

  • Bodinky100

    I can’t watch these types of police brutality videos anymore. I get too worked up and start imaging scenarios that a Christian man shouldn’t, if you know what I mean!

  • Leonard Rusciani Jr

    This officer could have gotten the information as to the driver, the car etc. and then left the scene to let the man calm down He could have issued a summons later.. Even if the policeman didn’t leave the scene, he could have used non lethal methods to subdue the man. Even if he only had a gun, he did NOT need to fire five shots center of mass. The cop way over reacted in this situation.

    • Taylor Post

      As soon as he saw the man with a knife, he was bound to stay until the situation was resolved. Can you imagine the shitstorm if he had left and the guy had killed the owner of the house or someone on the street? Additionally, 5 shots was actually less force than some cops would have used. You train to shoot until the threat falls down, he shot until the threat stopped coming towards him.

      • Mark Stuber

        No one suggested the cop leave the scene. You sure love straw man arguments. Did you go to straw man argument school?

    • Josh Kline

      I think you are right that he should have stayed out of the house but he had to stay right there since the public was at danger. Once he is in the house he shoots appropriately but it could have been avoided with a negotiator hopefully.

      • Katy

        The public wasn’t in danger! What a joke! The woman said “I’m only worried about him hurting himself.” She’s shocked when the officer actually shoots him! Then they arrested HER for threatening to sue them!! And you’re siding with the cops? What statists!

  • Taylor Post

    A person with a knife can close a distance of 21 feet and cause deadly injury in less than 2 seconds. I’d say he was well within that. This was a very sad ending, but the officer is not at fault. This makes you look pretty bad, LP.

    • Jacob

      It is his fault. Given the situation, the officer should’ve been armed with his taser. A taser easily stops a knife wielding man without having to kill him. It was obviously suicide by cop, and the cop was too stupid to stop him from succeeding.

      • Taylor Post

        A knife is a deadly weapon. Tazers are not used in cases where it’s either the officer’s life or the suspect’s.

        • Paul Kopacko

          Taylor, this was obviously not a case of the officers life or the victims life. The officer was stupid to have entered the home regardless of having permission from the home owner. It was not definitive the victim was suicidal and no one else was in danger within the house. Backup and a trained interventionist should have been called in to talk the victim down. The cop overstepped his bounds and obviously did not have sufficient training in how to deal with a distraught person. He demonstrated poor judgement at best and recklessness in the least. He should be removed from the force immediately and have his license to own and use a firearm revoked as he does not have the judgement to use one properly. A sad demonstration of police not properly trained and overstepping the mandate set forth for them in the use of deadly force.

          • Brett Dent

            At the end of the day, the suspect had a knife, kept coming toward the officer (after many warnings), and was unresponsive to officer commands or inquiries. No one put the suspect in that situation but the suspect. He didn’t need a knife, he could have responded to police inquires or commands, and he could have not kept coming toward him.

            I have to respectfully disagree with you. The officer, even with backup, could just have easily had the same response from the suspect. As soon as this woman told the officer the man may be suicidal, he was then accountable for the situation. If there were a suicidal man in the house, it would have been against his duty to not search the house and simply allow him to kill himself.

            As for your “take away his firearm” comment, all I can say to that is that there is no reason. He located the suspect, told him to drop the knife, told him to back away… he kept coming toward him. I have to side with the officer on this one.

            • nuwriter

              Apparently this officer was not accountable for the situation. He escalated the situation as soon as he arrived.
              He was asked to help someone, whom he wound up shooting.
              There were no inquiries. The officer never asked him any questions. Never expressed any concern. Never claimed he was there to help. He did bring up the cause of the victim’s stress right away. He just started barking out orders, and almost immediately approached him with his gun drawn.
              No, Eric didn’t need the knife. But Eric wasn’t acting rationally at the time. Spencer should have acted rationally – but did not.

              • Brett Dent

                As with your other comments similar to this one, I’ll just say I strongly disagree with you.

                • nuwriter

                  Thank you. Since I think very little of your opinion, and the obvious preconceptions that you used to form it (rather than the actual situation in question), I’ll take this as a compliment.

              • Bradley Hill

                Can I offer the T in your username? Should read
                nutwriter…

                • nuwriter

                  The cop was found justified by the government. Here I am shocked!

            • Mark Stuber

              Do
              you think starting a sentence with “at the end of the day”
              make every other fact or point people bring up irrelevant? What exactly do you mean by “at the end of the day?”

              • Brett Dent

                It is a “figure of speech”… a habit if you will. It is synonymous with “in conclusion” or “summarily.” Take it how you will. And yes, I think your points are wrong. Then again, you probably think the same of mine so what can ya do? lol

            • moe

              The cop would of been persecuted for not going in

              • Mark Stuber

                How’s that? Is there some law that makes it ilegal for a cop NOT to enter a house?

                • Artie P

                  I agree Mark, and the lady called the cops!!

            • Ralph E Berkeypile Jr

              At the end of the day, the pirate behind a badge shouldn’t have entered into the man’s home. He had every right to be holding a knife in his own home. There are many hundreds of ways for peace officers (not the violent thug law enforcers of today) to have arrested the man in any another location in any other way. In the end, the man was murdered by a member of a violent enforcer street gang.

              • Bradley Hill

                At the end of the day, you are still wrong…

                • Ralph E Berkeypile Jr

                  Subject: Re: New comment posted on Cop guns down man over a car accident (GRAPHIC, VIDEO)

                • nuwriter

                  At the end of the day, he’s still right, and you aren’t smart enough, or honest enough to realize why he’s right.

          • daddyksinger

            Very well said and the fact that anyone could disagree with your statement leaving me to believe they agree with the cop’s actions is somewhat alarming.

          • Joseph Carslake

            Well said sir!

          • blkdragon

            “The officer was stupid to have entered the home regardless of having permission from the home owner.”

            He didn’t need permission of the home owner.

            “It was not definitive the victim was suicidal and no one else was in danger within the house.”

            And you’d be screaming about how he didn’t go in if the guy had slit his own throat.

            ” Backup and a trained interventionist should have been called in to talk the victim down.”

            They were. That’s what his radio traffic (when his hand covered the lens and there was that funny beeping he was pressing his mic key) was for.

            “The cop overstepped his bounds and obviously did not have sufficient training in how to deal with a distraught person.”

            Cause apparently all police officer need six years of college and a masters in counseling.

            ” A sad demonstration of police not properly trained and overstepping the mandate set forth for them in the use of deadly force.”

            Well if you know so much better either go work as a cop or get elected to your state legislature and change their training requirements.

            • Mark Stuber

              re:: “Cause apparently all police officer need six years of college and a masters in counseling” No. just common sense and just average social skills for a man his age.

            • Paul Kopacko

              Got an answer for everything, don’t you? Yes he did need permission to enter the home. Ever hear of illegal search and seizure laws under the 4th amendment? Go home and when (or if) you get some intelligence, come back for another try. I will say your reply was good for a laugh at least. It amazes me how stupid some people are.

      • Josh Kline

        Taser isn’t the right weapon to confront deadly force. One shot is all you get and it can fail. He shouldn’t have gone in the house that was the error.

        • Taylor Post

          We can armchair quarterback this all we want, but he did not go in with the expectation that this person was a threat. He was an involved party in a motor vehicle crash. I just think it’s a shitty situation that ended tragically. I hope the multiple review boards the officer is going through see it that way too.

          • Josh Kline

            Taylor, I think it goes down to the policy. I would hope the policy would be assure the safety of others if you can do that disengage and wait for backup and negotiators. If the policy was followed than it is the policy that needs review.

            • Taylor Post

              Yeah, it really does come down to policy. Bottom line is that this is a graphic video of a seriously terrible situation, and tonight there is a family without a son. I’m so sorry that situation played out the way it did.

          • Mark Stuber

            Re: “but he did not go in with the expectation that this person was a threat” Then why did he have his gun drawn? Or course he was expecting a threat!

          • Paul Kopacko

            If he did not believe the person was a threat why did he have his side arm drawn before he even began attempting to coax him to come out? Your logic is really straining. Cop was wrong to have entered rather than call for a trained counselor.

          • nuwriter

            Then why did he go in with his gun drawn?
            Clearly, he went in with the expectation that this person was a threat.

            • Brett Dent

              I believe he had every right to enter the house, gun drawn or not. You know what would have ended this situation peacefully? If the suspect had listened to just ONE of any number of orders the LEO made. He didn’t, he kept portraying to the officer he was a threat, and he paid for it. It is a tragedy, but the LEO was justified in my opinion.

              • nuwriter

                The officer was the one who portrayed himself as a threat.
                That you cannot let him off the hook fast enough is very, very telling.
                Yes, Eric Johnston should have known that the police are unstable, and will shoot first and ask questions later.
                The actions of the officer clearly did not end the situation peacefully. You seem to be missing that painfully obvious point.
                What officer Spencer did failed. That the confrontation occurred at all was a failure on his part.

                • Brett Dent

                  No, it wasn’t a failure on his part. It was a failure on the person who failed to follow simple orders while coming toward a police officer with a deadly weapon.

                  And I don’t give a shit if what I say is “telling” of anything. Believe whatever you wish about my motives. Doesn’t negate the fact that this man, threatened by an armed police officer or not, CHOSE to come at said officer with a weapon while ignoring warnings and orders.

                  • nuwriter

                    Brett, it most certainly was a failure on his part. His job was to resolve the situation without killing anyone. He was called to talk the victim down. Instead, he shot him. That, like your argument here, is a clear failure.
                    What you don’t give a shit about is the facts of the case.
                    Get it through your head of who came at who with a weapon first. I’ll give you a hint, it wasn’t the victim.
                    It was the officer who CHOSE to approach an armed man with his gun drawn. He chose to threaten the seated man.
                    None of your false assumptions negate these facts.

              • Mark Stuber

                Most of us are not claiming he did not have a right to go in there with his gun drawn. We brought up the fact that he had his gun drawn to counter the claim he was not expecting a dangerous stitution.

                • Brett Dent

                  I just don’t see a connection between him drawing his gun and a “dangerous situation.” This is because the officer was entering an unfamiliar residence during a situation involving an unstable person. Having a gun drawn was probably the best way to protect himself.

                  • Mark Stuber

                    The connection is, if was not expecting danger, he should not be waiving his pistol. Do you think cops should be waiving pistols for the heck of it. Someone made a claim that the cop was not expecting danger. Several people made the obvious repsonse to that claim. “Then, why did he have his gun drawn?”

                  • nuwriter

                    The best way to protect himself would have been not to enter the house. He was in no danger standing at the door.
                    There were two unstable people in this situation. One of them is dead, and one of them approached that person with a gun.
                    Do you really not see a connection between drawing his gun and a dangerous situation? Really?

      • Brad Ford

        The Officer was liable for the guy as soon as the woman said he had a knife and may kill himself. The officer had no choice but to enter the residence. You never ever carry a taser in a knife or gun situation. A person with a knife can kill you faster than you would believe and the taser can fail, seen it many many times. If the taser fails the officer dies, PERIOD! The officer used deadly force and was justified in doing so. The officer could have transitioned to his taser if the guy was cutting himself and not attempting to come at the officer, but this was not the case. The officer was right!

        • Josh Kline

          Brad, I don’t think he needed to enter the residence. He could have
          stayed outside and waited for a counselor or even the guy to calm down
          perhaps. If he is outside and the guy comes at him then no choice is
          left. He had no choice bu to fire but the choice was made wrongly to
          enter the house.

          • Brad Kirby

            Of course if the guy had killed himself while the officer waited outside, you and those like you would have said the officer should have went into the house to save the guy. You don’t bring a taser to a gunfight. Exactly how far should the officer have backed up before firing? All you people sit at your computers and pass judgement on video’s like that and not once have you ever been in a situation like this. Everyone has the benefit of hindsight so it is easy to condemn. How long would you wait to fire if someone advances towards you with a weapon? You do realize that a person can close that distance in less time then it takes to blink, right? Don’t get me wrong, I’m the first to condemn a shooting if it is excessive force. I don’t trust the police and I don’t think they always have our best interest in mind. This was a good shoot. This officer was couteous and gave the man more chances and warnings then he needed too. I think he waited too long to shoot.

            • nuwriter

              No, if the guy had killed himself that would have been a tragedy – but it would not have been the officer’s fault in any way.
              The officer did not bring a taser to a gunfight. He brought a gun to a situation where there was no fight at all.
              The officer escalated the situation.
              The officer was not courteous. Courtesy does not involve barking out orders.
              Yes, I’ve been in situations where people were threatening to hurt themselves. I did not threaten them, and they did not wind up dead. That’s bad conflict resolution.

              • Brett Dent

                Actually, when he first entered the house and started calling out, he was quite courteous in my opinion. “Barking orders” didn’t occur to me until he located a suspect with a KNIFE in his hands. If anything, the suspect escalated the situation.

                • nuwriter

                  He was not “quite” courteous. Your definition of courteous and mine are clearly different. He never asked if Eric was alright.
                  Saying please at the end of a sentence does not make that sentence courteous. He does say “please” but he does so in a threatening manner, and does so after loudly ordering around the owner of the home. He waited all of 1 minute before entering the house with his gun drawn.
                  The situation was escalated by the officer entering the house with a drawn gun.

                  • Brett Dent

                    You mean it was escalated when a man was suicidal inside of a house? Or escalated when said man picked up a knife?

                    And why would the officer not go in immediately? He needs to assess the situation, see if the man is a threat to anyone else, or if he had harmed himself. I can think of many reasons to go in immediately.

                    • nuwriter

                      No, it was not escalated when the man was possibly suicidal inside the house. At that point there was a potential conflict. The mere act of picking up a knife is not escalating a conflict.
                      Approaching another person with a gun IS escalating a conflict.
                      Why would he not go in right away? Precisely because he hadn’t assessed the situation. Because pointing a gun at a suicidal person is a bad idea. Because he hadn’t made contact with a suspect armed only with a knife alone in a house – when he clearly had had the opportunity to harm other people, and had made no threat to do so. The woman never claimed that she had been threatened.
                      Yes, you can think of reasons to go in immediately. So did the officer. How did this course of action work?
                      Please tell me that you do not think this is the best way to handle conflict – with immediate threats and drawn weapons?

                    • Mark Stuber

                      Then man already had the knife when the cop arrived. Are you saying the murder victim esculated the situation before the cop arrived?

                    • Bradley Hill

                      Brett, it is no use trying to bring nutwriter to understand anything. He was probably an abused kid at home and doesn’t understand cops need to be cops out in the field. You know, cops at the end of the day, want to go home, too.

                  • Bradley Hill

                    Oh, tell it to your mama nutwriter

                    • nuwriter

                      Goosestepper says what?

              • Bradley Hill

                Don’t send a mama’s boy to a gunfight either… The cop wasn’t courteous? Ha-ha You get rattled whenever someone raises their voice on you, don’t you? The officer was being an officer….You ever an officer? How do you prove your authority to the public? Ask them if they would like to obey your commands over tea?

                • nuwriter

                  It’s not about me, stupid. It’s about a person who is suicidal. I realize that you’re not a thinking person, so this won’t make any sense for you.

                  It wasn’t about “proving his authority”. It was about getting a job done – in this case, getting the man out of the house – alive.

                  You’re bluster makes you look like really childish. The other kids at recess must be really impressed by you.

                  You realize, don’t you Cartman, that this guy failed. But of course, violent failure seems to be good for you.

            • Josh Kline

              Brad- I most certainly would not have blamed the officer if the guy killed himself. I would have said the officer made the right call staying out of the house. Again though the training is the key to this- if he followed procedure and training than my quarrel is with the procedure not the officer. I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of what you said though the shooting was justified.

            • Bradley Hill

              Thanks for you “BALANCED” thinking
              post

          • Bradley Hill

            Josh…what was the officer suppose to do by standing outside the resident all night? He called to the victim several times outside the door, but the guy did not come out on command. NOW WHAT? Leave the residence and head back to the Department? Are you serious? Is that how you treated your mama when she called you upstairs? Just ignored her until she went away? Ha-ha…Country is doomed with morons like you in it.

            • Josh Kline

              Bradley, The best gunfight is an avoided gun fight. No one said he needed to wait all night or return to the department. We see standoffs all the time where police wisely wait out someone. They use negotiators sometimes family members. Sometimes even just a little time can let someone on the edge calm down and act rationally. The situation was contained- maybe it would have ended the same way- no one knows but it was folly to go into that house right away.

        • Paul Kopacko

          I agree with Josh here Brad. The cop blew it, period. I smell big time payout when he and the police force and city get sued.

          • michael mcpaul

            come one paul are you serious. the cop had every rite to go in the house the way he did because the dude was possibly suicidal with a knife, just like the lady said..i mean it is a sad day because that dude died over something so dumb but the police were doing there job they way they were trained

            • nuwriter

              Clearly that training worked like a charm in this scenario, didn’t it?
              You really think this was a good example of conflict resolution. Really?

              • Brett Dent

                But you’re acting like conflict resolution is the ONLY driving policy of an LEO. Another one is self defense, and when a man with a knife KEEPS coming toward you in close quarters, KEEPS ignoring your warnings/orders, and KEEPS not saying a word, HE is the one who is being chaotic, not the LEO.

                • nuwriter

                  You’re acting as if the confrontation was inevitable. That the officer had no other course of action available to him one he arrived at the house. That’s where your error is.
                  In this case, the driving force NEEDS to be conflict resolution. The only need for self defense came from the officer creating a conflict.
                  You act as if the officer needed to enter the house with his gun drawn, and that everything thereafter was a foregone conclusion. It was not.
                  The LEO (and it is painfully false to claim that Spencer was enforcing “law”) is supposed to be a public servant.
                  Warnings and orders were inappropriate in this situation, and the officer should have known that from the moment he walked up to the house.

                • Mark Stuber

                  He wasn’t acting cahotic. He was walking very slowly. The cop had plenty of time to step back.

            • Mark Stuber

              Yea. it’s too bad he was trained that way and didn’t have the common sense or decency to reject that aspect of his training. Do police Departments even higher people with above average intelligence anymore or are not power hungry thugs? Please were not like this 20 years ago.

          • Mark Stuber

            I hope your right. The D.A should also be voted out of office for not prosecuting.

        • Ralph E Berkeypile Jr

          What absolute rubbish. You don’t enter into another person’s home with a
          gun drawn due to that person’s actions with the intent of helping that
          person. You enter into another’s home with a gun drawn in order to
          assert power and control over that person while simultaneously being
          ready to use your gun to kill that person if he or she refuses to submit
          to your love.

      • Brad Ford

        One more thing, there is no idiot in this country that does not know they can be shot and killed for walking towards an officer with a knife after being told to drop it…Blame the person with the knife, not the officer. He made his choice!

        • Jesse Halbig

          Can’t we blame both? Can’t we say they both made bad choices?

          • Taylor Post

            Yeah. I think that’s fair to say. The headline is still misleading and inflammatory.

        • nuwriter

          Who moved towards who first?
          Who was the first to approach the other with a weapon?
          Any idiot should know that barking out orders is not the best form of conflict resolution in this scenario.

          • Brett Dent

            Wait, so you’d rather a police officer not approach with a weapon drawn when there is a distraught/suicidal/armed person in proximity? You’d rather the LEO get plugged with a knife than him defend himself?

            • nuwriter

              Wait, you think that Eric could have stabbed the officer who was outside the house, through a wall and a door? Seems unlikely.
              Yes, approaching the distraught person with a knife was a mistake.
              The officer was in no danger that he did not put himself in.

              • Brett Dent

                Officers always put themselves in danger. Regardless of that fact, it is this suspect who came at him, unresponsive, and with a deadly weapon.

                • nuwriter

                  The fact is that the officer was the one who approached the victim with a deadly weapon. The victim did not exit the house to go find the officer – the officer entered the house with a gun to find the victim.

            • Mark Stuber

              Another false choice argument.

        • Mark Stuber

          So the guy was an idiot. The cop doesn’t get to shoot people just becasue they are an idiot. What’s your point?

      • disqus_Kj8RZinYnI

        Police should be armed to the teeth these days. And so should citizens, not criminals.

        • nuwriter

          You really think that the police are there for your protection, don’t you?

          • Brett Dent

            They are NOT here for our protection, they are here to uphold the law. Whether or not they do that satisfactorily is a whole ‘nother conversation.

            • nuwriter

              Then what is the point of the law?
              What law was this guy upholding?

      • moe

        No it doesn’t

    • Katy

      I think you mean LR, and it doesn’t make them look bad at all. This is to show that police will often take the more violent option, whereas privately operated security programs like the VIPERS in Detroit say ‘treat a potential suicide victim like you’d treat a relative.’ Cops get their rocks off on shooting first and asking questions laters. Compassion>violence

      • Taylor Post

        This is a video of a man who wanted to die by a police officer shooting him, not a study of the justified or unjustified use of deadly force. I’m sorry I got the abbreviation wrong, I know how much that can offend people.

        • Katy

          It’s offensive when you’re insulting the website and can’t even get the name right. But no, what I really find offensive is your blatant cop worship and completely phony sympathy. You don’t care this man is dead. You don’t care Catherine Pratt lost her son. You’re assuming this man wanted to die by a police officer shooting him, but you don’t know that. You don’t ask why a negotiator wasn’t called in first, you just commend the cop for his actions. Cops don’t get special magical powers when they get a badge. They’re still people, and this is murder, blatant and unwarranted murder.

          • Taylor Post

            Ad Hominem. You know nothing about me, very little about my attitudes towards this situation, and less than nothing about my sympathies. I don’t ask why a negotiator was called because it went from a pretty routine call to a deadly force situation in less than 10 seconds. Cops don’t get special powers, they do get sworn responsibilities. I’d advise you to do a ridealong or two, get some self defense training, and see how incredibly hair-raising and immediate that situation was.

            • Mark Stuber

              Re: “Ad Hominem. You know nothing about me” She knows you assumed the guy wanted to be killed by the cop. I know that to.

              • Bradley Hill

                Kati could be right, but she thinks she reads peoples minds you know…If Kati says so, it is true…Probably goes to college. Oh, heavens, we are in trouble. They have been INDOCTRINATED Not educated.

          • Brian Kirk

            The guy was unresponsive to the officer. My guess is that the officer thought that the man was making good on his threats of cutting himself, so he had no choice but to find out and clear the scene for EMT. When he does make contact, the man with the two knives advances on him and refuses to drop the knives. He had no choice but to shoot until the threat ceased, which took 5 rounds before the man started to fall.

            • nuwriter

              Running out of the house was most certainly an option.
              Not approaching a possibly suicidal person with a gun drawn is also an option.
              Not using a threatening tone would also have been a good option as well.

              • Brett Dent

                Running out of the house? So that this knife-wielding man can come outside where innocent people are? Yeah, REAL SOLUTION THERE MAN.

                And you say threatening tone, yet I keep watching the video and all I see is a FIRM tone. It wasn’t until the man KEPT coming toward him that he started yelling “PUT THE KNIFE DOWN OR I’LL SHOOT”.

                He didn’t put the knife down. He got shot.

                • nuwriter

                  The knife wielding man wasn’t threatening any innocent people. He was in perfect position to protect those innocent people from outside the house.
                  Do you somehow miss the relative calmness with which Wendy Allenbaugh comes to the door? This man is not a threat to innocent people.
                  You hear firm. Clearly Eric heard a threat. He then backed up that threat by approaching less than a minute later with a gun.

                  • Brett Dent

                    Who cares if he approached with a gun? He is going into a house he’s never been before to assess a situation involving an unstable person. I’d say he had every reason to draw his gun.

                    • nuwriter

                      Clearly the victim cared that he was approached with a gun.
                      He went into the house before he had assessed the situation.
                      That this clearly was the wrong move just isn’t getting through to you, is it?

                    • Mark Stuber

                      I think it was fine to have the fun drawn. He just should not have pulled the trigger.

                    • Katy

                      No, that reasoning is flawed because you’re assuming a lot about the situation. Going into a hostage situation where an innocent is about to be killed by a psychopath? By all means, draw your gun. A guy gets into a fender bender and becomes suicidal, and you go into his house with your gun drawn and screaming hostilities? I wish this guy had knifed him. The only good cop is a dead cop.

                  • Mark Stuber

                    You bring up a good point. Compare the calmness of a civilian who personally knew the murder victim compared to the person who chose and was trained to be a cop;. I think that woman would make a better cop.

            • Mark Stuber

              He had choices besides shooting. He could have stepped backwards to keep his distance why still watching him.

          • Brett Dent

            Murder? Sorry, Katy, but it was the man who had a knife, kept coming toward the officer, ignored all his warnings and orders, and didn’t respond. And while you could call me a “cop worshiper” since most of my family are LEOs, I also have a brain and am capable of critical thought.

            It is your comments like “cops get their rocks off on shooting first and asking questions later” that show just much YOU are the biased one here. I’ve met so many LEOs (including military CID and state patrol and city cops). The overwhelming majority of them never want to be in a situation where someone dies.

            But hey, I’m sure you’ve spent so much time with LEOs to form your biased opinion. You’re just a sheep.

            And one more thing… do yourself a favor and go to your local police department. Tell them you are interested in doing a ride along. Do a ride along a half a dozen times, even more. Get an idea for what these cops are like, what they go through, and what their mentality is. But, I bet you won’t.

          • Bradley Hill

            OH, I see the Cop Worshipper (Taylor Vs the Cop Hater (You) justifies your comments. You’re a real YOUNG piece of work Katy.

        • Mark Stuber

          So what if the guy wanted to be kiilled by the cop. That doesn’t change the cops culpability. I cop doesn’t have a right to shoot me just because I asked him to. What kind of argument is that? He waned to be shot. Think man.

    • Mark Stuber

      You seem to be confused about the 21 foot rule. Two second is plenty of time to make the decision to pull the trigger and then to physically pull the trigger if you already have your gun drawn..

      Two second is not plenty of time to decide to shoot, draw your gun, aim, and then get two shots off before the knife attacker closes the distance.

      When I first read the headline, I thought I was going to invoke the 21 foot rule myself. But then, I watched the video and saw the cop already had his weapon drawn and aimed.

    • Edwinsagain

      The cop should have backed out period. He had no business in the house in the first place.

    • Mark Stuber

      I already posted a response but I guess the monitars did not let it in because I provided a link to a source.

      When, first read the headline, I thought I was going to invoke the 21
      foot rule myself. But then, I watched the video and saw the cop
      already had his weapon drawn and aimed.

      He was approaching very slowly with his weapon to the side. The officer
      could have simply backed up out of the door. How many times did the
      cop yell. He could have stepped out the door 4 or 5 times before he
      decided to shoot. It’s that shooting was his first instinct. He could
      have stepped out. There was no one else in there with the “suspect.”
      If he wanted to keep his eye on him he could have backed up one step
      for every step the “suspect” made closer in order to keep a
      safe distance. That cop had plenty of alternatives. Your talking as
      if the cop was charge by the suspect. He wasn’t.

      • Brett Dent

        So, you’re okay with a suspect with two knives coming toward a police officer while ignoring multiple orders? Gun drawn or not, this man had the option to pick up knives and come toward a police officer. No one put him in that situation but himself.

        • Mark Stuber

          False dichotomy. Just because one can demonstrate the “suspect” was wrong does not justify him being tried and executed. The cop only had the right to shoot him in self defense and only if he did not have a reasonable alternative. He had plenty back up and he didn’t. You’re conflated two issues. Whether or not the guy disobeyed a lawful order is different than whether the cop was justified in shooting him. You’re whole argument is based upon the “suspect” being in the wrong. It is as if you argument is “he deserved it.” That’s not up to the cop or you to determine. You saying things like ” No one put him in that situation but himself” indicates to me your attitued is that he deserved to be shot. He didn’t put himself in that situation. He sought help from his friend. His friend sought help from the police. The police didn’t help him.

          • Brett Dent

            The man picking up the knives, by itself, didn’t warrant being shot. The man coming toward a police officer while not responding to orders and not communicating is.

            And this whole “reasonable alternative” comment isn’t exactly how it works. The guy kept coming toward him wielding knives, being unresponsive. He was obviously threatening to the LEO, there were people outside… I’d say he made the best call to defend himself rather than retreat out the front door.

            And again, this isn’t some distraught person who is only threatening himself that I am saying “deserves it.” It is someone who is acting aggressive while having a deadly weapon in close proximity to someone else while ignoring orders and warnings. Big difference.

            Whether “deserves to be shot” is the right wording is your problem. “Deserving,” “causing,” “creating,”… any of these will do. Point is, HIS actions led to shots being fired.

            • nuwriter

              The person who initiated the aggression in this case was the officer. He was the one who entered the house with a gun, and threatened to shoot the victim.
              It was HIS actions that led to the shots being fired. He was the one who was “acting aggressive” while having a deadly weapon in close proximity.
              He was not “obviously threatening” to the criminal with the gun.

              • Bradley Hill

                Oh, we see your point. The office had no business coming to that address. The officer was intruding a persons living space and should not have been there to do what he was called out to do….See the man! Where O Where do people like you come from? You failed at Critical Thinking.

                • nuwriter

                  Funny that you say that I’ve failed at critical thinking. When you haven’t done any critical thinking at all, and seem gleefully incapable of doing so. You’ve shown no ability to assess even the simplest facts of the case, and then you make broken conclusions based on those mistakes. It’s pathetic.
                  He was called out to prevent the man from killing himself. He then shot that man. That, dullard, is a failure. You know all about failure, don’t you?

              • Artie P

                Braindead!!!

                • nuwriter

                  Sorry to hear about your brain death Artie. That must suck for you.

            • Mark Stuber

              “He was obviously threatening to the LEO” How can you call it obvious when most of the posts disagree with that? You stating it is “obvious” doesn’t make is so.

              • Artie P

                Just because “most of the posts disagree with that” means nothing. What we do have is a video of exactly what happened. I watched the video and, based on the video alone, I felt that the officer did what he had to do. You people are acting like the cop gave the kid no options; no warnings. The cop didn’t shoot him as soon as he saw him (that would be a totally different situation, and unwarranted), but continued to order him to drop the knife. He didn’t drop the knife, so the cop did what he had to do to defend himself (aka self-defense). If you were the cop, in that situation (watch the video again), can you honestly say that you wouldn’t have shot the guy with the knife? If you say otherwise, then you are a damned liar. If you had a gun and a guy was bearing down on you with a knife, what would YOU do?? I think the cop gave him more than enough warning, but the kid kept walking towards him. It’s a sad situation, all the way around but, in the end, the cop made the right call.

                • Mark Stuber

                  Re: You quoting me out of context. “most of the posts disagree with that”. Thanks for making it seem like I was using an “everybody agrees with me” argument when I wasn’t. I was merely pointing out that if one does not have the basic assumption of natural law, that would explain why people o a libertarian would not agree with him. This is like the 4th time the first sentence of a post is a straw man.

                  • Artie P

                    Don’t play fucking word games with me Mark!! There are educated comments and then there are uneducated comments. Sadly, in this case, those who are denigrating this cop are clueless about what a cop has to deal with, and how. And those, who shoot from the hip, and make unwarranted claims, when the video shows exactly what happened, are not coming to their own personal conclusions (unless of course they have it burned into their brains that every cop is a thug). Why do the cops have dash cams and helmet cams? So that they DON’T abuse their power or authority. Yes, IA will look at this video, and I can guarantee you, they will call it a clean shoot. Do you have any training in the use of deadly force Mark?? I have!!

                    • Mark Stuber

                      Re: “Don’t play fucking word games with me Mark!!” What are you considering “word games?” Why are you cussing at me? Don’t you know that only reinforces the stereotype of the hot head cop?

                      The following quote from you is a total fits the notion that too many cops have a false sense of entitlement. ” Sadly, in this case, those who are denigrating this cop are clueless about what a cop has to deal with, and how.”
                      The fact that it is also a non-sequitur reinforces the reimforcing impact of this statement. Since, the statement doesn’t really help your argument? Why bring it up?

                      RE: “Yes, IA will look at this video, and I can guarantee you, they will call it a clean shoot. Do you have any training in the use of deadly force Mark?? I have!!” Sorry, but I don’t submit my thinking to the to the actions of any department’s internal affairs.

                      Even though, your question is a non-sequitur, I’ll answer it. I have some training. A little with pistols but more so with knives. Hochheim’s system and Pekiti-Tirsia Kali.

                    • Artie P

                      Stop using your phony doublespeak Mark, it only makes you look more moronic. I asked you if you were trained in the use of deadly force, not whether you have SOME training. There is no such thing as “no training”! You are either trained or you are not trained. There are no half measures taken in the training of use of deadly force. That means that you don’t know the way that it works, doesn’t it? You don’t know the in’s and out’s of when you can legitimately use lethal force and when you can’t. So Mark, when is it legal to shoot at someone and when is it illegal? Do you know the answer to that question? Should you pull your gun if you don’t have the guts to fire it at a person? When do you retreat and where to? When do you not retreat? What, in your mind, is the definition of being in immediate danger?
                      I will also add that cops have cameras on them for a number of reasons. That camera will play a huge part in the he said/she said of this matter. They will watch the video and determine if the cop was in the wrong, which is why they have the cameras. This cop did NOT want to shoot this kid, but the kid gave him no alternative. And sorry, cops don’t turn tail and run from lone men, wielding weapons. I wonder how many of the people, who have commented on this thread, have ever even held a gun. When you carry a firearm, you carry the immense responsibility of knowing when to use and when not to use it; the power of life and death.. I carried and I never once had to pull my gun on anyone. The cop told him, SIX times, to drop his weapon. He didn’t drop his weapon(s) and continued walking towards the cop. That, my friend, is the time that it is legitimate to use deadly force. And, if you think that the cop enjoyed it, watch the video again. He was out of breath from the entire confrontation. However, when it comes down to two men, with weapons, and one approaching you and failing to drop the weapon, you have a decision to make. You don’t have time to hesitate because hesitation could mean the difference between you living or dying. Maybe if you watch the video again, without bias, you will have a better understanding of why the cop fired on the kid. I have shown this video to a number of people and they all said the same thing, the cop did the right thing. No bias, just watching the video and answering that one simple question. As far as people’s comments, on this video, some of you don’t know your ass from your elbow, or have a lick of common sense!!! Don’t ever become a cop because you would likely die in your first week.

                    • Mark Stuber

                      Do you even know what double-speak means? You’re criticizing me for using the adjective “some”? You think putting the word “some” in front of the word “training” is double-speak? Why? Do adjectives confuse you? This is so funny to me. This is not the first time I have had a conversation with an angry cop who was upset because, my language was too precise. Being precise is the opposite of using double-speak ,you troglodyte! Double-speak is vague speech. I could have just answered your impertinent question with a simple“yes.” Excuse me for trying to give you a more accurate idea as to my training level. Excuse me for trying to confuse you by using an adjective. I could have just answered, “yes,” and left it that. I believe my response was more honest than just responding with a “yes.” Here’s the definition of double-speak according to dictionary dot : “evasive, ambiguous language that is intended to deceive or confuse. “ Please, tell me. How was my languish ambiguous and could have it be interpreted as being an attempt to deceive or confuse unless, I already knew adjectives confused you?

                      There’s no such thing as “no training”? Then why did you ask me if I was trained or not? That’s a pretty redundant question if is impossible for somewhat not to be trained. Wait, you get even more ridiculous than that. You actually contradict yourself in the very next sentence!,

                      You typed, “There is no such thing as “no training”! You are either trained or you are not trained.” Wait. Didn’t you just say there is no such thing as “no training?” If that is so, then how could “not trained” be an option? In addition to how you cartoonishly contradicted yourself in the very next sentence, you created a false dichotomy. There are different levels of training. There isn’t just “not trained” and “trained.” Ever hear of the belt system in Japanese martial arts? There is more than White and black. Ever hear different levels of academic degrees? There are high cshool diplomas, B.A and B.S degrees, Master’s Degrees, professional degrees such as a JD or MD, and there are PhD.

                      The beloved Marine Corp has Parris Island and the San Diego Depot. Then the graduates go on to infantry school at Camp Lejune or Camp Pentlleton. I could go on with examples of training levels beyond your overly simplistic and asinine notion of “there’s only no training or training.”
                      Not that you answer very many of my questions but, I have another question for you. Do you agree with Bradley Hill’s statement, “Police training is ALWAYS ongoing. If you were a police officer, you would know that.”? Now following is a dichotomy that is not false.
                      Either the quote above from Bradley Hill is correct and your claim that there is only “training or no training” is wrong. Or your right and Bradley Hill is wrong. Because, if your right, once you are trained how could you continue training? Really, if you’re right it would be impossible to train someone who was already trained just like; it is impossible to kill someone who is already dead.

                      Re: “I will also add that cops have cameras on them for a number of reasons.” You’re beating that point to death. We all know there is a camera on the cop. That’s how we viewed the video. Where the camera was has no bearing on whether or not the cop should have or should not have shot. Please, stop with these non-sequitors. They just confuse things and are a waste of time.

                      Re: You’re statements: “ You don’t know the in’s and out’s of when you can legitimately use lethal force and when you can’t.” and “The cop told him, SIX times, to drop his weapon. He didn’t drop his weapon(s) and continued walking towards the cop. That, my friend, is the time that it is legitimate to use deadly force. “
                      Again, I don’t know how many times I or someone else have tried to make the following point but I will attempt it again.
                      We are not contending that the cop will probably get away with it. The question is not if under the guidelines of his Police Department, he could or could not get away with killing the victim. We are contending that regardless of the department’s procedures, he did not have to shoot that kid to defend himself. His thought process should not be, “Will IA clear me for this or not?” and if “Yes” I will shoot. I want cops who won’t shoot even when they know they can get away with it., Just because he’s going to get away with it, doesn’t make it right.

                      Then you went on babbling and being preachy making total irrelevant statements. For example, whether or not it was a necessary shooting is not dependent upon which commentators have or have not ever held a gun. That’s irrelevant.
                      Re: “ I have shown this video to a number of people and they all said the same thing,  “ All that proves is that you hang around people that think like you. So what?

                    • Artie P

                      Oh wow Mark, you picked up on a typo that I made! That should have been “some” training, not “no” training, but I’m not perfect. And since you haven’t ever been trained in the use of firearms, you have no idea how long the training is do you? Well I’ll tell you. Roughly, about 2 or 3 sessions on the range, a written test, and a psych eval. In other words, about one week. That is why I am saying that, in the case of firearms training for police and security guards, there is no in-between. You either get it or you don’t. Yes there are levels of training in other areas. For instance, when I was in the military, I went to boot camp. After boot camp I went to another base for training in my MOS. After that I went to my permanent party base to apply what I already learned, and to learn the specifics for the position that I was in. There are levels of education. Kindergarten, elementary school, secondary school, high school, trade school or college. Of course those all have different levels of learning, depending on which way that you decide to go with your education, but firearms training is a single course. Either you take it or you don’t.
                      As far as the cop goes, are you pretending to know what he was thinking? Are you reading his mind? Policy and procedures of the police department? Hang that! He did everything that he could to get the kid to drop the knives. Shooting him was a last resort, as any reasonable person would see. But you obviously have the hate on for cops, for some unknown reason. Finally, and for the LAST TIME, I am NOT A COP, and have never been a COP!! You can take my word for that or just believe whatever the hell that you like. As a matter of fact, because of my past experience with cops, I joined the military to become an MP. However, I had to change my MOS because I am COLOR BLIND, and therefore did not qualify to be an MP, nor would I qualify to be a civilian cop.
                      You do quite a bit of speculation about someone that you don’t know. I speak in relation to the video and to what I know to be the rules of engagement for any security guard or cop. I was a SECURITY GUARD!!
                      As far as Bradley Hill’s comment about whether police training is always ongoing, all I can say about that is that I imagine that procedures and weaponry change over time, as do strategies, so as a lay person, I would tend to agree with the statement that police training is always ongoing, but that is my guess, not based on any absolute information. Does that answer your question??
                      You never did answer my question, if you were in that cop’s situation, what would you do? You suggest that the cop should have backed his way out of the house. You also mentioned the health and well-being of innocent people. Well, if the cop backed out of the house, and the kid came out of the house, he would have just put everyone else in danger.
                      Today, I would never want to be a cop because this world has gone crazy. My life is worth more to me than $35K a year, if that. I made more than that as a computer programmer, without the risk of death every time I went to work. So go on believing what you want about me, I really don’t give a damn. You’ve already shown how jaded and irrational you are by repeatedly calling me a cop. You are way off the mark there, as you are in your assessment of this police officer’s actions.

                    • Mark Stuber

                      RE: “Oh wow Mark, you picked up on a typo that I made! That should have been “some” training, not “no” training, but I’m not perfect. ” I stand corrected then. I should have known that was a typo.

                    • Mark Stuber

                      Re: “. And since you haven’t ever been trained in the use of firearms, you have no idea how long the training is do you? “ I’ve had some training. Nor formal training. And yes I do have some idea. I actually, have several ideas. “No idea” seem very hyperbolic. At Paris Islands recruits get about two weeks worth before they get tested for qualification. Then they spend more time at the infantry school and throughout their career in the Marines.

                      I imagine other formal training systems vary in the amount of time they spend. This whole point is a total non-sequiter. That’s why I took my time in answering your question.

                      Re: “As far as the cop goes, are you pretending to know what he was thinking?” Not for certain but I am confidently speculating. That is what empathy is. Trying to figure out what the other person is thinking. Empathy is one of the traits of higher older thinking in the animal kingdoms.

                      You keep on harping on “policy and procedures.” Like those are followed by police departments when it comes to cops t the “thin blue line” and call out bad cops. But anyway “policy and procedures” be damned if they justify murder. Morality trumps “policy and procedures.” At least that is what the judges told Nazi War criminals when they passed down their guilty sentences.

                      Re: “I was a SECURITY GUARD!! “ I was a security guard once also. What a complete non-sequiter.

                      Re: “You do quite a bit of speculation about someone that you don’t know.  “ So did you. Because you used cop language and talked in detail about “policy and procedure”,Even if I concluded you’re a cop, it would not have been a huge leap in logic and the consequences of being wrong on that were only that it gave you something to hang your hat on. I was betting on betting next months house payment on it. Seriously, why do you go off on such non-sequiters. They are so tedious to address. Can you please just stick to relevant points. It is not relevant that you were never a cop. My personal training in fire arms and whether or not I memorized the police Manuel like an automaton is not relevant either.

                      Re: “Does that answer your question?? “ I asked you more than one question. You’ve ignored the vast majority of the one’s that I have asked in previous posts. I’ve attempted to answer all of yours no matter how irrelevant to the conversation they were.

                      Re: “You never did answer my question, if you were in that cop’s situation, what would you do?  “ Yes, I did. Scroll down. I gave a more complete answer before. But I said something like, I would have talked in a softer tone. I would have given the guy more time to process what I said before barking at him again, I would have stepped backwards. Let me look and see if I can quickly find what I typed once before.

                      Hey, in reviewing my comments. I don’t see where I ever said you are a cop. Looks like you just jumped to the conclusion that I thought you were a cop. You weren’t far off, at some point I may have thought you probably were, that is until you mentioned being an EMT and “working with cops.” For awhile, I thought you were a woman to be honest.

                      The closest I came to saying you were a cop is, “. You’re comments are so stereotypical asshole and stupid cop.” Just because I said you sounded like a cop, does not mean I think you are one. You’re reasoning is about as shallow as a typical uniform cop’s.

                      Oh, I found how I originally answered your question, “If that guy was coming at you, in that manner, and you warned him off SIX times, and he continued approaching, what would you do? ”

                      “It depends how quickly he was moving, his body language, whether the knife was to his side or raised, what my skill level is, how much space was behind me, if there was anyone else around who may be in danger, and a myriad of other factors. I honestly don’t think I would have shot him under these circumstances. I sure as hell would have talked to him differently. I do know how I react to life threatening situations. I have been in some. One involving a knife. One time I was in a headlock with a knife to my throat. I admit however: I was 15 and too stupid to be scared. That wasn’t the only time in my life I faced danger. “

                    • Mark Stuber

                      Re: “And, if you think that the cop enjoyed it, watch the video again. He was out of breath from the entire confrontation.” What? If we breath hard after an activity that means we didn’t enjoy it? There are plenty of activities that I have enjoyed which caused me to run out of breath. Have you ever had sex before? In case you haven’t, it’s very enjoyable and if it’s good sex , you’re out of breath afterwords.

                    • Artie P

                      OMG, you are useless Mark!!! You will say anything to bolster your viewpoint. I’m just giving you simple, and verifiable facts. In my view, the cop did the right thing. In your view, he didn’t. I’m not going to change your mind and you’re not going to change mine, so give it up. I have better things to do with my time than this.

                    • Mark Stuber

                      Re: “You will say anything to bolster your viewpoint.” Actually, I go out of my way to avoid logical falacies. You’re staw man argument and non-sequitur city. I answer the questions you ask me no matter how impertient. You answer very few of mine.

            • Bradley Hill

              BRETT, BRETT, BRETT…..If I had a knife and you had a gun and I came at you with my knife, I bet you would shoot me…Don’t EVEN say you wouldn’t shoot me or you will prove yourself to be a fool.

          • Bradley Hill

            He HAD a knife in his hand and he came walking toward the officer with it in his hand. The officer commanded the guy to put the knife down several times during this confrontation AND THE GUY MADE A DECISION TO NOT PUT THE KNIFE DOWN…How hard is this to understand, especially after watching it happen in the video Mark?
            The officer went home to his family and the guy with the knife, who did not put in down when commanded to do so, didn’t live through the day.
            Nothing here about the lack of compassion… It was either be stabbed or not. The officer made the right decision in shooting the guy. The only question I have is why the officer shot him so many times.?
            Under MOST Police Departmental Policies, this was a justified shooting.
            Take your beef up with them!

            • Mark Stuber

              First of all, screaming with all caps only reinforces the stereotype of the hot head cop.
              Re: “AND THE GUY MADE A DECISION TO NOT PUT THE KNIFE DOWN.” How do you know? He may not have made the decision not to put the knife down. Just because he didn’t do it, does not mean he didn’t make the decision not to. We already know the man was distraught. Who knows how much is cognition was impaired? The cop may very well have triggered the “fight or flight” response in a man who was temporally mentally impaired. Who knows?

              Re: “he officer went home to his family and the guy with the knife, who did not put in down when commanded to do so, didn’t live through the day.” Duh. I think we all know the consequences of dying and not dying. Were you trying to make a false dichotomy argument?
              Re: “. It was either be stabbed or not.” No one is disputing that. What people dispute is that false claim that it was necessary for the cop to shoot without being stabbed.

              Re: “Under MOST Police Departmental Policies, this was a justified shooting. Take your beef up with them!“ Is point that he was “just following orders”? I hope you get the historical reference. Just because Police Departmental Policies allowed him to it or even required him to do it, does not mean he should.
              I asked you a question earlier that I would like an answer to You claimed, “They are trained ahead of time on how to respond to all situations, prior to being employed.”  How is that even possible?

      • Artie P

        Yeah that’s right, back up one step for every step that the knife wielder took. Then, as he’s backing up, in an unknown place, he trips and falls and the knife wielding suspect is on him. It doesn’t work that way. Some of you are just bound and determined to paint all cops as being rabid, gun happy animals. When IA reviews this video, the cop will, and should, be exonerated. Have you ever been stopped for a traffic violation? You will notice two things. One, the cop never stands directly opposite the driver’s door. He will always stand at an angle where the driver can’t knock in over by quickly opening the door. The other thing that you will notice is that the cop will always have his hand on the handle of his pistol. People don’t become cops because they want to murder people. They become cops because they want to make a difference. And cops, just like you and I, want to go home at the end of the day, not end up in a morgue, so excuse him for defending himself against a person who is non-responsive to the cops warnings, and approaching the cop with a deadly weapon. Some of you obviously have no working brains in your heads. Are there bad cops out there? Of course there are, but this one was not one of them, and believe me, he will relive this event over and over again, for the rest of his life.

        • Mark Stuber

          re: “Yeah that’s right, back up one step for every step that the knife wielder took. Then, as he’s backing up, in an unknown place, he trips and falls ” So, the cop had to shoot just in case he tripped and fell? Sorry, I don’t think that constitutes and imminent threat.

          • Artie P

            Mark, evidently you do not how to think rationally. I’ve had my say and I’m not going to argue with your myopic viewpoint, about something that you know nothing about.

            • Mark Stuber

              Way to end an argument where your logical fallacies are exposed. Declare the exposer doesn’t know what he is talking about and declare victory. ;) Typcical cop attitude.

              • Artie P

                Hmmm………did I say I was a cop? I never said that and I never was a cop. I’ve worked with cops, as a part of EMS, and got to know them pretty well. I was, many years ago, working security, and they wanted to train us to carry a gun. They used the same people who train new cops to do this, so I have been fully trained in the in’s and out’s of the use of deadly force.
                Yes there is an asshole in every crowd, but the vast majority of cops are regular people, just like you and me, who have a job to do, and they want to come home to their families at the end of the shift. Maybe you should try walking in their footsteps and you will get a better idea of what it is like to be a cop. All that we ever hear about is the negative press about cops. For every negative story, there are thousands of stories, that are positive, that never make the headlines. This, of course, gives the general public a misguided bias against cops. Perhaps you should do a ride along and ask the cop every question that is on your mind. I promise you, it will be a learning experience and, hopefully, remove that hate that you have toward LEO’s. In the meantime, since you seem to hate cops so much, when someone breaks into your house, don’t you dare dial 911!!

        • Mark Stuber

          re: “Of course there are, but this one was not one of them, and believe me, he will relive this event over and over again, for the rest of his life.” How do you know this guy is not one of them? If you count the cops that cover up for the bad cops over half the cops are bad cops. I have personally witnessed too many incidences where cops lie and try to intimidate over very minor or sometimes not even violations while other cops just sat around and did nothing. It tells me a lot when you just take it for granted that the cop is a good cop.

          • Artie P

            Excuse me???? I take it for granted that a cop is a good cop??? Are you an idiot? There is always a percentage of good and bad, but in this case, the cop acted properly. Also, we have the benefit of the camera, that was attached to the cop. That takes away any speculation about what went down. If that guy was coming at you, in that manner, and you warned him off SIX times, and he continued approaching, what would you do? I know what I would do….shoot his ass off, and don’t tell me that you wouldn’t do the same because that would be bullshit, and you know it.

            • Mark Stuber

              RE: “Excuse me???? I take it for granted that a cop is a good cop??? ” Yes. Yes you did. You wrote, “Are there bad cops out there? Of course there are, but this one was not one of them . . .” How do you know? Have your rode with him? Have your read his personel file? Have you seen him tell the truth under oath even when he could have gotten away with lying and the truth would detriment the prosecutions case or the truth would dentriment him getting the warrant he wanted?

              • Artie P

                The video speaks for itself!!! The cop tried to reason with him. When the kid came out, wielding knives, the cop didn’t shoot him on the spot. As a matter of fact, the cop warned him to drop his weapons SIX times, and yet the kid kept moving towards the cop. A person coming at you with knives, ignoring your warnings, means that deadly force is necessary. End of story!!

            • Mark Stuber

              re: “If that guy was coming at you, in that manner, and you warned him off SIX times, and he continued approaching, what would you do? ”

              It depends how quickly he was moving, his body language, whether the knife was to his side or raised, what my skill level is, how much space was behind me, if there was anyone else around who may be in danger, and a myriad of other factors. I honestly don’t think I would have shot him under these circustances. I sure as hell would have talked to him didfferently. I do know how I react to life threatening situations. I have been in some. One involving a knife. One time I was in a headlock with a knife to my throat. I admit however: I was 15 and too stupid to be scared. That wasn’t the only time in my life I faced danger.

              • Artie P

                Mark, you are forgetting one thing, emotion!! In a situation like this, the adrenalin rushes. As a person is closing in on you, with a weapon, you don’t take your eyes off of the person. If the person continues walking towards you, and it don’t matter how he is holding his knife, at some point he will get too close. Well, after six repeated warnings, the kid didn’t listen, he got too close and he died because of it. You honestly don’t think that you would have shot him under those circumstances? I hope that you never find yourself in that circumstance but, if you were, and you had a gun, don’t tell me that you wouldn’t have shot him. Don’t even go there because we all know that that is bullcrap! Are you going to wait until he is upon you, and then try to reason with him? I guarantee, you will get gutted. Reasonable cause? Absolutely, and no jury would convict him of any crime because they can see exactly what happened on the video. As a matter of fact, the DA wouldn’t even press charges against him, so there wouldn’t even be a trial.

                You had a knife to your throat and you were “too stupid to be scared”? You got that one right because only a moron wouldn’t be scared of having a knife held to their throat!

                • Mark Stuber

                  re: “Mark, you are forgetting one thing, emotion!!” Nope, I didn’t forget about the emmotion. That is why I mentioned I have experience with life threatening situations and once had a knife to my throat. I would have never brought that up if, I didn’t think emotion was a factor. I mentioned that in the context if me explaining how I am sure, I know how I would have reacted.

                  “re: “You had a knife to your throat and you were “too stupid to be scared”? You got that one right because only a moron wouldn’t be scared of having a knife held to their throat!” Notice how you left out the fact I was only 15 at the time.

                  • Artie P

                    Age doesn’t matter Mark, anyone, no matter what their age, so I guess you were a moron then, as you are now!! Are you trying to tell me that you weren’t scared at the fact that a knife was held to your throat? And you play the “macho” card on me?? I’m willing to admit that I would be scared as hell having a knife held to my throat, so now who is the MACHO one?? I guess that would be YOU, right?

        • Mark Stuber

          What was your point when you went into detail describing the tactics of a routine traffic stop? Where you just trying to show off knowlege no matter how unrelated to the discussion?

          • Artie P

            Show off??? Not hardly Mark!!! What I am explaining is that there is more to police work than most people understand. Car stops are just another one of those things that people don’t understand. And no, the kid was not approaching “very slowly’ he was walking at a steady walking pace. The cop warned him SIX times, to drop the weapon and the kid kept getting closer and closer. Cops are paid to do one of the most dangerous jobs around, and are not paid well to do it. They put their lives at risk every single day that they work, and also have to worry about retribution from someone that they put away, who gets out of prison and wants revenge. Nice way to live huh? When you order someone to drop their weapon, and they continue to move closer to you, it becomes a situation of the cop’s life or the perp. The cop felt that his life was in danger and he acted accordingly. That is why cops have helmet cams these days. The video make it crystal clear that this was a clean shoot, whether you like it or not!

            • Mark Stuber

              re: “Mark!!! What I am explaining is that there is more to police work than most people understand. Car stops are just another one of those things that people don’t understand.”
              Yea, that sounds like showing off. You said it yourself. You wanted to demonstrate that you know than us about traffic stops. Sounds like showing off to me. Especially, when traffic stops have nothing to do with incident we are talking about.

              You must have a low opinion of the general public if you don’t think people understand car stops. Why do you think, people turn on their overhead light, roll down their windows, and place their hands on the steering wheel?

              So, your point is, people don’t understand the tactics of a car stop so, cops have a right to shoot the emotionally distraught? Again, a total non-sequitor. I realize that isn’t what your point is. I’m not trying to make a straw man argument here. I just wanted to illustrate why I think bragging is the only plausible explanation as to why you decided to explain car stops in detail.

              You sure are a macho macho man. ;) You want to be a macho man. You’re whining about how people don’t understand what cops go through kind of hurts that macho image you are trying to project.

              I don’t think I would have gotten so personal if you didn’t make personal attacks on me. Implying that I am a liar and that I am too stupid to empathize with police. I think I have you pegged. You’re comments are so stereotypical asshole cop. You should be getting a call from central casting soon.

              • Artie P

                Bragging??? Not on your miserable life Mark!! If you would get off of your high horse and read what I am saying you will understand what I am trying to express. As for what YOU do, during a carstop, you are absolutely correct. I am just letting you know, from my own personal interaction with cops, that they follow a certain procedure when they do a carstop, including the positioning of their cruiser. And how many times to I have to tell you that I AM NOT A COP??? “Macho macho man”? Now who is casting aspersions? I don’t like violence, and I don’t condone violence, but when it is necessary, I will use violence. Are you married Mark? Do you have any kids? Or do you have a girlfriend? What if some dude came up to her and assaulted her, would you stand there and rationalize with him? Think on that one for awhile. Would you pull a gun on him? I wouldn’t because, unless he has a weapon, I have no reason to draw down on him, so I handle it with my fists. Fortunately, I ‘ve only had to do this one time in my life, and it was not such a great day, but as soon as that guy put his hands on my wife, I didn’t even have time to think. I bullrushed the guy. You seem to think that I am a person who salivates for any chance to show my testosterone. On that point, you are very wrong. I try to avoid confrontation, at all costs, but when it is necessary, I will not back down. If that is your definition of the word “macho”, then so be it.
                Now, I’m not going to sit here, all night long, and argue with someone who has no common sense. I have made my points and have nothing further to say about this matter. You can argue with yourself or get educated. Personally, I would choose the latter, lest you find yourself in another argument that you can’t win.

                • Mark Stuber

                  re: “What if some dude came up to her and assaulted her, would you stand there and rationalize with him? ” That’s a different situation. Now you are resorting to bringing up situations that are of a different nature. I already answered to your question to me if I would have shoot a man, ….. That one of the factors would be wether or not their are other people around that are in danger.

    • Mark Stuber

      You
      seem to be confused about the 21 foot rule. Two second is plenty of
      time to make the decision to pull the trigger and then to physically
      pull the trigger if you already have your gun drawn..

      Two
      second is not plenty of time to decide to shoot, draw your gun, aim,
      and then get two shots off before the knife attacker closes the
      distance.

      When
      I first read the headline, I thought I was going to invoke the 21
      foot rule myself. But then, I watched the video and saw the cop
      already had his weapon drawn and aimed

    • Mark Stuber

      You seem to be confused about the 21 foot rule. Two second is plenty of
      time to make the decision to pull the trigger and then to physically
      pull the trigger if you already have your gun drawn..

      Two second is not plenty of time to decide to shoot, draw your gun, aim,
      and then get two shots off before the knife attacker closes the distance.

      When I first read the headline, I thought I was going to invoke the 21
      foot rule myself. But then, I watched the video and saw the cop already had his weapon drawn and aimed

    • daddyksinger

      That guy was someone’s kid and he was obviously in a bad place mentally.
      The cop was a total a-hole and certainly should not be allowed to keep his badge.
      Very sad ending. peace

      • Bradley Hill

        Yes, the officer didn’t get stabbed to death, right? Oh so sad the police officer didn’t get stabbed and the deranged guy with the knife lived. In those days, people will say that evil is good and good is evil….We are seeing those days in people like you.

    • Joseph Carslake

      Just asking, are you trained in the use of the knife? From the tone of your post it would seem that you consider yourself so. As such then you must take on board the fact of the environment, the fact there is a man with a GUN pointing directly at you, screaming hysterically. When you shout at someone holding a knife they are more likely to attack than to do as you ask, because you have activated the Survival Responses. Obviously something the cop was never told. If the cop is screaming hysterically how the blazes is a fearful or panic stricken person supposed to keep calm. Here in Ireland the very fact a policeman calls you to stop, even when you are walking in the street is enough to fill people with fear. They act like thugs and behave more like the scum they are supposed to be protecting the public from.
      But not me, I have had too many dealings with the aggression and the big talk, and the threats and the intimidation. That is not police work that is thug work.

      • Mark Stuber

        Good point. “When you shout at someone holding a knife they are more likely to attack than to do as you ask, because you have activated the Survival Responses. ” No one should have had to tell the cop that. Although most people could not express it in those words, it is common sense! Cops used to have common senese. I think this one did to but, he didn’t care.

    • Ralph E Berkeypile Jr

      What would have happened had the violent habitual felon behind a badge never entered the home? Answer: Nothing. The violent street pirate should be tried and executed for murder.

    • Mark Stuber

      You are misapplying the 21 foot rule. The 21 foot rules says you don’t have enough time to decide to shoot, pull your gun from a holster, aim, and then pull the sure in the amount of time it takes a knife welder to close a 21 foot distance. Pulling the gun out of the holster is the longest part of that process. In this scenario, the LEO already had his gun drawn and aimed.. He would have been safe at 15 feet and probably 10 feet. Also, you can’t tell for sure in a 2D video but, it seems the “suspect” was more than 21 feet away or right at 21 feet.

      This site would not let me post a link. So, Google “Reaction Time – Lethal Force Encounter SHooting Scene Cosiderations” Gaylan Warren Columbia Int’l. Forensics Lab

  • Josh Kline

    There is tremendous misunderstanding of tasers and shooting to injure. Anyone with basic firearms training knows you shoot center mass you simply cannot stop a threat otherwise. Standard teaching is two shots center mass to stop the threat- if that doesn’t stop the threat go to the head. Tasers are not a weapon to be used for confronting deadly force either- they can be used at discretion to gain compliance. Remember a taser is usually one shot and has to land both probes and penetrate clothing. This guy was erratic, unresponsive and holding a deadly weapon. The mistake was entering the house not the shooting. It would depend to me on the police policy in that area but I would think if he violated the policy by entering the house he should be disciplined perhaps fired but not criminally charged.

    • Taylor Post

      That whole “shooting to injure” thing is some of the worst type of BS you hear from people who don’t understand use of force.

      • Josh Kline

        Yes and shooting center mass isn’t necessarily to kill either it can be survived it is to stop the threat.

      • Katy

        Sorry if people don’t understand ‘use of force’. They’re also called rational human beings.

        • Brett Dent

          When’s the last time you were in close proximity to a man coming toward you with two knives, non-compliant, non-responsive?

          A police officer should not have to risk his own life because someone else made the CHOICE to pick up knives, not follow orders, and come toward a police officer.

          • nuwriter

            Katy’s not dumb enough to create that situation where it does not need to exist.
            The officer chose to put himself in danger. He made the choice. He killed a person whom he made the first aggressive move against.
            Yes, approaching someone with a drawn gun is a threatening move. Ordering your victim to drop their knife is not a defense.

            • blkdragon

              Bull.

              • Bradley Hill

                CHECKMATE bozo

                • nuwriter

                  That’s not what happened here.

                  • Bradley Hill

                    And you were there? Right

                • mr_teaspoon

                  Don’t be a cop, then.

                  • Redley

                    Thanks! That should end the discussion with these twerp kids, but you probably know twerp kids
                    Like nutcase & Kati. They keep coming back with more stupid and outrages comments.
                    KIDS WITHOUT EXPERIENCE

              • nuwriter

                Nice response. I know, thinking is hard.

                • SNS77

                  Apparently so, since you can’t put together a situation where a cop tries to talk down an armed and emotionally volatile person before he/her makes a poor decision. That person advances within deadly threat range without making any effort to communicate or respond. The cop has an armed individual whose friend is worried is going to hurt himself coming at him. Cop doesn’t know him from Adam. Maybe he is looking to hurt others, including cops. Maybe he’s ok with attacking a cop if it gets him the suicide by cop he’s looking for. Would you risk your life, risk seeing your family again on assuming he has no bad intention or is mentally stable? 10-15 feet can be covered in less less time than it takes to snap your fingers. I’m sure YOUR family would applaud your decision to be assume the best of a stranger if it you that ended up with a knife buried in your chest. Stop basing your morality on “maybe”, tv/movies/call of duty, and learn how real life, actual violence, and physics work.

                  • nuwriter

                    This was a situation where a cop might try to talk an emotionally unstable person down. The cop however, in this case – is also emotionally unstable. He lets fear get the best of him right away.

                    The cop was the one who did the advancing. The cop is the one acting aggressively.

                    I realize this is tough to figure out.

                    If he was looking to hurt others, he’d probably have to stand up first. He was no danger to anyone while seated at a kitchen table. Yes, that’s actual physics.

                    This cop acts like he’s in quite the hurry to end this situation, and get home to his family as fast as possible – his job be damned.

                    My family didn’t raise a knuckle-dragging thug, and would be ashamed at the stupidity if their son charged a such a person with a gun.
                    This cop could just as easily have been stabbed or shot if his victim had had that in mind, and had been hiding behind a corner, or armed with more than a knife.
                    You’re moronic assumptions have nothing to do with physics, real life or anything, and it would seem that it is you who wants to make your decisions based on a video game, rather than dealing with real people in complex situations.

                  • mr_teaspoon

                    Would you risk your life, risk seeing your family again on assuming he has no bad intention or is mentally stable?

                    Guy is in the wrong line of work if he isn’t prepared to deal with that.

                • Redley

                  You would be capable as well if you had a brain nutcase.

                  • nuwriter

                    When is “I’m rubber, you’re glue” coming up, child?

                    Please tell me that you’re under 10? Otherwise, a lot of people trying to educate you failed.

            • moe

              Police officer doing his job always places himself in danger.

              • nuwriter

                And a police officer acting belligerently places himself in more danger.

                • Bradley Hill

                  punk

                  • nuwriter

                    Nice comeback. When you can’t make a rational argument (and you can’t) head for the schoolyard insult.

                    I’m sorry, but I’ve moved on to pitying you.

            • SNS77

              Dumb for doing his job. Right.

              • nuwriter

                His job was to prevent a suicide, not kill anyone.

            • Redley

              And now you side with your dumb followers. Aren’t you the bravado one.

              • nuwriter

                Is English your first language?

                Do you even read what you write?

                “Aren’t you the bravado one”

                You cannot be this dumb.

          • Mark Stuber

            It’s a cop’s job to risk their life. Granted they shouldn’t have to make unreasonable risks but to argue that police should take no risk, i think insults the honor of the profession. If there is any honor left in it.

          • daddyksinger

            That cop was standing in the doorway and could have very easily backed his way out into the opening.
            He knew this guy was possibly suicidal so he shoots him five times?
            Do you have any kids? Are you a compassionate person?

            • Josh Kline

              You cannot turn your back to a suspect with a knife the door was 90 degrees away and the officer did back up for a few seconds. Even that could have been a deadly mistake by the officer had the suspect rushed him earlier.

              • Mark Stuber

                Who suggested the cop; turn is back?

                • Josh Kline

                  The door wasn’t directly behind him it is a dimly lit foreign house to the officer and he is being approached with a man with a knife. That is not easily navigated- and yes I think at a minimum he would have had to partially turn his back. Plus guy with a knife can become guy with a gun (the officers) in a second.

                  • Mark Stuber

                    “Can be” is a far cry from imminent threat.

                    • SNS77

                      Anyone you don’t know who isn’t communicating with you and has advanced within 15 feet of you with a knife in his/her hand, gun in your hand or not, is an imminent threat. I’m no cop apologist/fan, but that’s a simple fact regardless of who you are. Do some video research on how fast a person with a knife can close distance on someone with a gun, then take adrenaline, trip hazards, training vs. life-or-death moment into consideration. I’d bet a paycheck that 90% of the people yapping here have never been involved Ina violent confrontation where their life was at stake. Believe me, real life ain’t like on tv. Also, I love the biased writing style here. Railing against JBT’s is one thing, but using a tragic situation to create a JBT scenario is pathetic.

                    • Mark Stuber

                      RE: “Do some video research on how fast a person with a knife can close distance on someone with a gun, then take adrenaline, trip hazards, training vs. life-or-death moment into consideration. ” I already have. More than just video research. I’ve seen Isanto’s training videos on this he made in the 80s. I’ve gone beyond video research and read the reports of forensic scientists who tested this in labatories. One can pull a trigger in the amount of time it takes someone to close the distance of 15 feet starting from a flat footed position or stepping perpendicar to the direction of the object withn the 15 feet from. If you have read my previous posts, you would know, I have researched this. This cite won’t let you post links so google “Reaction Time – Lethal Force Encounter SHooting Scene Cosiderations” Gaylan Warren Columbia Int’l. Forensics Lab” I have arleady referenced this onece.

            • Bradley Hill

              That cop easily did his job….He was not a psycho-therapist and NEITHER are you. STFU

              • nuwriter

                When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

                • SNS77

                  When all you have is a life of second guessing a subject without any relevant education, everything is seen through ignorance colored lenses.

                  • nuwriter

                    When all you have is assumptions, you’re just going to wind up looking a… well, you know.

                    • Redley

                      That is ALL your assumptions have led up to nutcase. A big Zero!

                    • nuwriter

                      You realize that name-calling is not an argument, don’t you?

                      Do the other kids on your playground think you’re impressive little boy?

                • Bradley Hill

                  And I see your head is flat. Thanks for helping me notice that.

              • Guest

                Oh, but anal anon is a psycho-numskull and his days is coming. Believe that!

            • Bradley Hill

              Yeah, I am a compassionate person, but in order for me to be so, I have to be alive.
              Another day I get to go home to be with my children. It was me or him at this domestic call…He lost because he challenged me with a knife and I had to shoot him with my gun. My training came through for me once again.
              He could have layed his knife down when I commanded him to do so, but he didn’t. He lost his life because of his decision….

              • Katy

                So he lost his life because he didn’t listen to a cop, is what you’re saying. That argument says submission to authority is greater than morality. If this officer had one iota of compassion, he would have called a negotiator, used a taser, or at least shoot him in the leg. Unloading a full clip into his chest is inhuman! It’s murder! How can you justify that just because you have a job? This is why I believe all cops are bad. “I’m just doing my job” isn’t an excuse! You swore to uphold the constitution!

                • Mark Stuber

                  I like you Katy.

                • SNS77

                  He lost his life because he was well within the distance it would take for someone with a knife to become a deadly threat. If you want to talk about these things know something about them first. Oh, and not only don’t all cops have tazers, but they aren’t made for situations where people have a deadly weapon in their hand.

                  • nuwriter

                    He lost his life because his friend called a violent thug.

                    • Redley

                      And you call this response a call to debate, nutcase??

                      Now, I rest my case about you. You’re young, dumb, demented & foolish in you remarks.

                    • nuwriter

                      Yes I do.

                      Your arrogant and misguided. If you want demented, look in the mirror, you violent thug.

                  • Bradley Hill

                    Oh, but Katy is an export on police matters is what she and her followers are telling us. Moron kids is all they are.

                • Bradley Hill

                  You and your followers are ignorant of police matters. Negotiators cost tax payer dollars. If they aren’t in the budget than these kinds of situations don’t get covered by one.
                  The guy didn’t listen to the cop…You are right! Now, that is the end of this story for the guy. Next time you have an encounter with a cop and you don’t listen to them, maybe you will have a situation. That’s what I see you are setting up for yourself, anyway.

              • anon

                Your day is coming.
                Believe that.

                • Bradley Hill

                  What??? Don’t you have some dark place to stick your head?

              • nuwriter

                You are quite the stormtrooper, aren’t you fascist.

                You are a disease, and whatever community you infect will be far better off when you challenge the wrong person with your false bravado.

                • Redley

                  I can only hope that person might be you nutcase.

                  • nuwriter

                    I’m not making violent threats against anyone. Nor am I supporting violence. That’s the area of knuckle-draggers like you

          • Joseph Carslake

            I worked on door security for 18 years, I had everything from a sharp screwdriver to a machete pulled on me. We are not allowed to be armed so we have to deal with them the best way we can. Fortunately for me I had 50 years of Martial Arts training to fall back on. A knife is only as dangerous as the person behind it. It is my belief the police in question need proper training.

            • blkdragon

              And how exactly is the officer supposed to know how dangerous the person behind the knife is with just a glance?
              You pull a knife on someone with a gun and you get what you deserve.

              • Mark Stuber

                It wasn’t just a glance. It was several seconds. He didn’t suddenly “pull a knife.” It was already out and it was to his side. Also, he was at a safe distance (for the cop) well out of knife range and was moving slowly.

                • Bradley Hill

                  Pull a knife on a cop and it is ALWAYS justified that the officer shoots them…Departmental Policy everywhere in the country…Police don’t give a rats azz what the public thinks, otherwise. Its a cops life that is being threatened NOT the armchair blogger.

                  • nuwriter

                    Justifying the shooting of innocent people is the reason that people justly hate cops. This is why you are a cancer on the public.

                    Nobody “pulled a knife on a cop”.

                    It was the cop who drew his gun. It was the cop who was the aggressor.

                    • SNS77

                      Or maybe it was the cop who was trying to communicate with someone in hopes of keeping him from hurting himself and reacted as the situation changed.

                    • nuwriter

                      Do you communicate at the end of a gun?
                      How did his “keeping him from hurting himself” strategy work?

                  • Anon22385

                    So then if someone pulls a knife on a “normal” citizen they are equally ALWAYS justified in shooting?

                • SNS77

                  I guess it is possible to second guess this shooting if you mischaracterize/armchair quarterback what happened.

                  FIFY

                  • nuwriter

                    The only way to support the shooting is to mischaracterize what happened.

                  • Mark Stuber

                    It’s not even just possible, as a citizen it is almost a responsibility; it’s certainly a right.

            • JR Ridings

              you are an idiot….sorry…but a bladed weapon within 21 feet is a deadly weapon close enough to take your life….hate to have to laugh at you but you really are either ignorant of LE training or just a fool…

              • Mark Stuber

                You are misapplying the 21 foot rule. The 21 foot rules says you don’t have enough time to decide to shoot, pull your gun from a holster, aim, and then pull the sure in the amount of time it takes a knife welder to close a 21 foot distance. Pulling the gun out of the holster is the longest part of that process. In this scenario, the LEO already had his gun drawn and aimed.. He would have been safe at 15 feet and probably 10 feet. Also, you can’t tell for sure in a 2D video but, it seems the “suspect” was more than 21 feet away or right at 21 feet.

                again. this site would not let me post a link.

                • Josh Kline

                  Mark, Your assessment of the 21 foot rule is correct but your application to this situation is way off. I am betting this guy was 6-10′ and closing when the officer fired. This is a wide angle body camera it is a small house watch the movement. Plus a knife can also be thrown. Point is the subject has a knife and is moving towards an officer despite repeated warnings. This is a deadly threat and a deadly force response is justified.

                  • Mark Stuber

                    RE: Your assessment of the 21 foot rule is correct but your application to this situation is way off.” I didn’t try to apply it to this situation. I was refuting someone else’s application of the rule to this event. Again, the very first sentence is a straw man. Please, stop those. Makes me not want to read the rest of your post.

                • SNS77

                  You’re ignoring the variables of first or second shot stoppage and accuracy. Would YOU risk your life on a maybe?

              • Mark Stuber

                There is something to the 21 foot rule. You can close that gap pretty fast. I did it as a kid in water balloon fights when i was out of balloons. However, the 21 foot rules says some one can close that distance in the amount of time it takes a trained officer to draw his weapon, point, and shoot. In this case, the officer already has his weapon drawn and pointed.

                • SNS77

                  That’s one shot, mind you, and there’s no guarantee that it will be a stopper or accurate.

              • SNS77

                ^ This. As someone with twenty years of martial arts experience, I know that even the blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then. I have scars to prove it.

            • Bradley Hill

              Police training is ALWAYS ongoing. If you were a police officer, you would know that…Just looking at the overall bodies of most police officers, they could get stuck with someone pulling a knife on them. Ever see photos of polices officers who tried to reason with a person who knew how to widdle a knife around? I have and most cops have….that’s why they prefer to use their side arms.
              Thing is, people are not compliant toward the police officer when they demand them to do what they tell them to do..i.e… the girl on the porch that the officer had to tell her several times to stay seated. She kept moving around like some 3 year old child. This steps up the police officers level of awareness. The officer was concerned for this girls life as well…Distraction for a police officer can be unsettling. Did you hear his voice get louder when the girl kept moving from where he told her to stay? He had to keep his eye on her while dealing with the guy inside.

            • SNS77

              Duly noted. All police should have at least three decades of martial arts before getting the job, and we’ll use the experience of a bouncer who was extremely lucky never to get stabbed in the back or shot at as the baseline.

          • Ralph E Berkeypile Jr

            Nonsense! Risking one’s life is part of being a cop. If someone doesn’t understand that, they have no business being a cop. If we have reached an age when the cop’s life becomes more valuable than anyone else’s life, then it’s time to make cops illegal.

            • Bradley Hill

              Oh yeah….that will go over big when YOU need one sometime…Because with NO cops out there, you WILL need one, sometimes. Ralph…your daddy has a fool for a son.

              • Ralph E Berkeypile Jr

                When you’re having trouble with criminals you would have to be three different kinds of stupid, or Bradley Hill, to call even worse criminals to help you. The only reason I’ll ever call a cop is to have them come to cart away the criminal I just killed with my rifle. The role of the garbage man is the only thing that today’s braindead violent felons behind badges are good for anyway. You can bow down and worship your police gods if you want to, Bradley. Real Americans choose to be free.

                • Bradley Hill

                  What you just insinuated is that cops are NOT Americans. How untrue! I have some really good friends as cops and they are not war mongers over the public in which they work. Mostly, it is the Departmental Administration that screws the most with the officers. All the political crap they have to put up with dropped on their heads after spending 20 – 30 years as a peace officer. You don’t know what you are talking about when it comes to MOST of the peace officers in this country. They are being scrutinized on both ends, by the department and by the public. They are careful to not fart down wind for fear they will be brought up on charges. BUT, we are talking about a guy who held a knife up to an officer in THIS forum, so why don’t you stick to what is true and stop venting your hostilities toward ALL police officers, that you of course had dealings with over your lifetime. Sheesh…

                  • Mark Stuber

                    Re: “What you just insinuated is that cops are NOT Americans. ” No he didn’t. He insiduated that real Ameridcans choose to be free. The only way one could deduce from that that cops are not if Americans is to assume that cops don’t choose to be free.

                  • Ralph E Berkeypile Jr

                    You’re definately a cop as your reading comprehension level is clearly on a 3rd grade level. I never said that cops aren’t Americans. I never recall even thinking such irrelevant nonsense. What I said was that true Americans don’t depend on criminals behind badges to help them. I’m also not surprised that you tried to imply that I’m a criminal who had had frequent dealings with the street pirates. I’m also not impressed. I’ve never had a dealing with a violent gang member behind a badge. What I see is reality and I comment on it. I’m not the only one. There’s a reason why gun sales have shot through the roof – an unprecedented 50 million firearms bought in December alone. Everyone can see what’s happening. Cops are getting so bad that it may soon reach the point that the safest thing to do when a law abiding citizen sees a street pirate approaching is to either run for their life, or instantly open fire.

                • Josh Kline

                  Most police officers just want to perform their duties and go home in one piece. We need to give them less laws to enforce and make sure we have transparency- every officer should wear on of these cameras. Don’t place the blame of government tyranny on LEO they do not make the laws. Plus many beat cops understand our rights as citizens including the 2nd amendment much more so than elected officials or the average voter. Don’t make them the enemy and judge them individually based on merit.

                  • anon

                    You raise the excuse offered by law enforcement
                    who violate rights — “I was just doing my job.”

                    That has always seemed to be a bizarre excuse to
                    me. I mean, does it make the violation of my rights more palatable if
                    the perpetrator received money and a pension for doing so?

                    To add insult
                    to injury, the money and pension came/comes from tax funds; my own
                    pocket is being used to victimize me.

                    It is like a police officer who
                    beats me up then saying, “Not only have I violated your rights but look
                    at the generous pay stub I got last week for doing so.” That’s an
                    excuse? It is a sad attempt by law enforcement to relinquish personal
                    responsibility by denying they have free will once they put on a
                    uniform.

                    “I was just doing my job” didn’t work at Nuremburg. They hung the criminals anyway.

                    • Josh Kline

                      Anon, Not at all. I wrote this in response to someone else who questioned intentions. I did not make excuses at all. I said very clearly that the officer shouldn’t have entered the house and I said why. I then said once he is in there he did the right thing and I explained why.

                      Now you are comparing our police to Nazi’s who exterminated millions. This kind of over the top rhetoric is an insult to those survivors of those death camps and does a disservice to those of us who are opposed to abuse of power but oppose it in a logical thoughtful manner based on the evidence and reason.

                  • Art Lee

                    So few cops know the Bill of Rights it is not funny.

                • Guest

                  Hey! That’s offensive to compare police to garbage men.

                • Buddy Guy

                  Hey! That’s offensive to compare police to garbage men. I don’t think there is a proper analogy for this though. Anything you compare police to is getting the shit end of the analogy. Yes, even a pawn.

              • nuwriter

                With no cops out there, who will show up 30 minutes after the crime has been committed? Who will pretend to solve crimes?

                Who will fleece the public, trample their rights, and rush them with guns? Who will legally murder people on the streets?

                Who will kill the people they’ve been called to help, because they aren’t smart enough to come up with a non-violent solution?

                Who will break down the doors of people who live next to drug dealers, kill their dogs, and perhaps shoot them, cause they aren’t smart enough to go to the right address.

                Who will murder the homeless?

                Who will do all of these things, and then have the self-denial to think that they should be thanked and honored for this?

              • anon

                Who needs a cop?

                All cops do is fill out reports for the insurance company after the crime is over.
                They rarely ever actually prevent a crime.

                Prepare yourselves to handle your own business and never ever call the police.
                They’re always “scared” and always have arrogant, aggressive attitudes….pussies.

                “The typical pattern of events as a police state collapses is that an
                oppressed people tend rise up and extract vengeance from the most
                visible sign of their oppressors.

                In near history the Egyptian National
                Police were widely feared as a brutally corrupt organization.

                Within
                days of establishing a numerical superiority on the streets, protestors
                began beating police officers to death. Those who were known, were
                dragged from their houses and murdered in front of their families. The
                fear of the average cop in Egypt was such that many discarded their
                uniforms and fled for their lives.

                Later, that government was forced to acknowledge their police forces
                loss of authority by formally disbanding the National Police.

                Do public
                sympathies lie with the oppressed people who suffered terribly under
                these petty tyrants or the policemen who were supposedly just doing
                their jobs?

                Perhaps this explains the amazingly swift and violent
                crackdowns in American cities, lest the protestors begin to overwhelm
                the police. After all, at their greatest concentration they’re really
                only a tiny fraction of the populace.

                If you
                willingly enforce absurd laws, which the citizenry knows to be absurd,
                you will generate hostility.

                Society holds this in check as long as
                people fear the State, but once the control slips a little the people go for the oppressors…

                In WWII France for weeks
                until advancing British and US forces could put a stop to it, there were
                French cops swinging from lamp posts, found dead in ditches or worse.

                Sometimes entire families were murdered in the rampage.

                I shed no tears for those who got what they deserved.

                History shows that once tyranny gains a
                foot
                hold, this is the only way its ever corrected, as the bullies in
                uniform will mostly be dead or in hiding within 48 hours of the collapse.

                When the urban rage that has been seething for generations against the
                police boils over, what else can happen? Study the history of law
                enforcement in a tyranny when the system crashes.

              • Buddy Guy

                Your replies are riddled with pathos. I can see emotion pouring out of your posts. Logic is the fence of the mind. It seems that yours is broken. Please repair it before you come on here and spout emotionally tainted rhetoric. Simply pathetic.

            • Josh Kline

              Ralph, Yes police officers understand that the job is risky and they are held to a higher standing than a private citizen. However they are not supposed to sacrifice themselves. Once the cop is in the house he does the right thing as tragic as the outcome was. Make cops illegal? Really? We need security forces and law enforcement it is what allows society to function and men like you and me to live in peace. The great thing about this video is that we have a VIDEO. The police force should be commended for their transparency. Unfortunately many of the opinions and just plan illogical ideas displayed here shows why many officers don’t want to wear cameras.

              • Ralph E Berkeypile Jr

                Cops are not supposed to sacrifice themselves? Absolute horsehockey! It was once upon a time, before America became totally insane, that police departments sought individuals who were willing to do just that. People departments used to seek out and hire those who would be willing to lay down their lives for a citizen. Now the prostitutes behind badges are taught that their lives are more valuable than anyone else’s. They exist to obtain money for their pimp the city or county. That’s their job. They say that they exist to protect the public as public relations to justify their existence. In days gone by, a peace officer would rush into a burning building to save a child. Now the ratfilth LEO’s taser and arrest fathers trying to rush inside a burning building to save their own children. Any cop not ready and willing to sacrifice his or her own life to the benefit of a citizen shouldn’t be wearing a badge. Additionally, the street pirates don’t want to wear cameras, because doing so exposes their constant criminal activity.

                • SNS77

                  Actually no, they’re not. Everyone has a choice in a free society and the SC has ruled that cops aren’t obligated to protect you, never mind die for you.

                  • Ralph E Berkeypile Jr

                    You’re simply agreeing with me. In times past that was what peace officers were expected to do and they did it. In this age of official criminality, the cops are there to be prostitutes to obtain cash for their pimp. They certainly aren’t on the streets to protect you or anyone. The court’s rulings simply prove that point beyond question.

              • Ralph E Berkeypile Jr

                We don’t need police for society to function nor to live in peace. Police were virtually non-existent in the first decades of the republic. The founding generation recognized police as a domestic standing army which is invariably used to exercise the will of those in control. They recognized police as an unacceptable element in a free republic. They were right. Furthermore, Police don’t protect anyone. Their first and only real duty is to prowl the streets as prostitutes behind badges to obtain cash for their pimp, the city. Protecting the public is just a secondary public relations necessity that the police wish they didn’t have to do. The vast majority of the time they show up long after the crime has occurred and often further victimize the victims. Police are getting so bad that it may soon reach the point that the safest thing to do when you see a cop approaching you is to either run for your life, or instantly open fire. Police do far far more harm than good and it’s time to make them illegal again.

            • anon

              They’re all chickenshit little pussies.
              If they’re so scared they should go find an honest job.
              “Cop” isn’t even in the top 10 most dangerous professions….Fishermen and farmers have more dangerous jobs…truck drivers have more dangerous jobs …and they don’t get to beat people up or shoot them when they have a “bad day”.

              When the SHTF guess who the first ones hunted down will be.

            • SNS77

              Good luck in that fantasy world where cops are superheros that gallantly step in front death for about $55k a year.

              • Ralph E Berkeypile Jr

                Not a fantasy world. It’s reality. That is the purpose for having police: to protect and maintain individual rights. Government and police exist for no other purpose. Of course it’s clear that the governments of today, city, state and federal, are totally criminal and do everything except the things for which the people established the government agencies in the first place. One might say that it’s time to throw out all of the cops and put all new peace officers in to perform their only legitimate purpose. I say that it’s simply time to make cops illegal again. Real Americans don’t need protection.

          • Bradley Hill

            Brett Dent— A waste of your words to get these morons to do any real thinking about your post. I gave you and up vote.

            • Ralph E Berkeypile Jr

              Your comments are thoroughly moronic and childishness to perfection. You must be a cop.

              • Bradley Hill

                OK Ralph…I’ll assume you will live the remainder of your life being as ignorant as you are….No sweat off my brow. Just remember, after ignorance is exhausted, stupid takes over and there is NO cure for stupid.

          • Vladimir Linderman

            You people are morons. You are so brainwashed you accept every police action. There was no need to kill this guy. A warning shot would enough but in this country human life is worth a shit .So is yours in the eyes of authority.

          • mr_teaspoon

            A police officer should not have to risk his own life because someone else made the CHOICE to pick up knives, not follow orders, and come toward a police officer.

            Well tough shit, he’s a farking COP. Danger comes with the job. Don’t want to face a situation where you have to risk your life to disarm a mentally ill person with a knife? Don’t be a god damn cop.

            • Brett Dent

              I have no issue with cops having to put themselves at risk. But what cops are not obligated to do is jeopardize their life for the sake of a criminal’s life (or a suspect’s life).

              Show me ONE police department that has the policy that an LEO must “disarm” someone with a knife who comes toward them while ignoring ALL orders to drop them?

              The LEO gave this man plenty of time and opportunity to comply with reasonable commands (drop the knife is pretty darn reasonable). He failed to, insisted on walking toward the LEO, and he paid for it. Tragic, but justified.

              • mr_teaspoon

                Show me ONE police department that has the policy that an LEO must “disarm” someone with a knife who comes toward them while ignoring ALL orders to drop them?

                I’m almost certain there isn’t one, which is why the huge majority of these cops get away with it.

                This simply is not a case of a police officer backed into a corner and resorted to lethal force out of necessity. He could have, I don’t know, shot the guy in the leg? Not shot to kill?

                I also hesitate to give the guy the benefit of the doubt for the way he spoke (read: screamed) at the girl who made the call.

        • Herbert Napp

          Obama voter.

    • Mark Stuber

      Why is so much dependent upon “police policy”? Are police not allowed to think or apply common sense? When the recruit, do they look for people with good judgement. It doesn’t seem like they do. Cops are different now than 20 years ago and it’s not for the better.

      • Chris

        The Rodney King beating was 22 years ago. The only difference between then and now is that video cameras are a standard part of most electronic devices.

      • Taylor Post

        20 years ago baton strikes to the head weren’t considered deadly force and it was okay to shoot a fleeing suspect in the back.

        • Ralph E Berkeypile Jr

          The cops 20 years ago weren’t that much better than those of today. It’s still “legal” for the violent street pirates to shoot a fleeing suspect in the back. The violent maniacs behind badges are now regularly shooting children in the back. Haven’t you been watching the news?

          • Bradley Hill

            And how would you know that Ralph.. Do you have some other bit of false information/conjecture to produce here. My question to you, is how are you going to make it through the rest of your life being so ignorant of everything?

        • Mark Stuber

          I was an adult 20 years ago and I don’t remember it being ok to shoot a fleeing suspect in the back. Was that considered OK in an LEO agency you worked for 20 years ago? Did you all cover it up when that happened?

          • Bradley Hill

            If you are talking about D.C. police, you may very well be right…

        • Bradley Hill

          That is NOT true Taylor….Cops who shoot their guns in the line of duty must produce a report to their superiors within the shift. An investigation is started right away while the crime scene is fresh. If the perp. has a bullet in his back then the officer who sjpt him is very big trouble. Even in the movies, cops don’t shoot their running perps. in the back. Get real yoyo!

      • Josh Kline

        Mark, I do have a concern that some cops have personality types not conducive to high stress. It is a job that attracts some hot heads (note use of some). (I am not a cop/booster/wannabe)

        But yes training and policy are very important- even the most rational and level headed among us make poor choices under tremendous stress. Training and procedure help you make good choices under pressure. The officer cannot be expected to be a psychologist or expert on human behavior so they need clear policies on when to confront and when not to. I think the policy for this should have been containment and disengagement (stay outside after you confirm he is alone) and wait for backup and hopefully a counselor or maybe family member to come talk the guy down.

        However if the policy was to confront it would be hard to fire the officer for following it. My problem would then be with the policy.

        • Mark Stuber

          Re: “Mark, I do have a concern that some cops have personality types not conducive to high stress. It is a job that attracts some hot heads (note use of some).”

          It’s much more than some. It’s about 1/3-1/2. Ninety percent of the rest are not brave enough to stand up to the hot heads. Heck, I suspect most of the others will cover for the hot heads. I’ve actually witnessed a cop rear-end a car (simple fender bender) however, when the other police came on the seen, they lied on the police report just to protect the cop from getting int rouble for causing damage to the government property. I guess they made the moral judgement that protecting a fellow LOE justified allowing a civilian’s insurance rates to go up and to have to pay fine.

          You don’t think the LOE profession attracts power hungry thugs? I can detect a major change in the attitudes of LEO’s in the past 20 years. I had one retired cop tell me that, they are basicly training the cadets in the Police Academies to take control by being jerks. I’ve heard (from a less credible source but ,it sounds credible when it matches up with my experience) that police departments won’t even higher people with an IQ above 110. That may or may not be true however, that fact that is seems plausible says volumes. You keep implying that cops are only capable of following procedure and can’t think one milimeter outside the box: not even outside the fox but just within the realm of common sense. I’ve been pulled over for traffic violations and witnessed the cop get mad because I used a word he didn’t know. In his mind, the use of a high school level vocabulary equaled “smart ass” and he responded accordingly.

          Re: “The officer cannot be expected to be a psychologist or expert on human behavior so they need clear policies on when to confront and when not to “

          Again, that’s a straw man argument. No one here ever suggested the cop be a psychologist. What we would like is for the cop to have a better attitude and have common sense. I also want a cop who can’t handle a situation if it doesn’t fit “procedure.” All this policy and procedure talk used to defend the cops actions seems as if some people expect and want cops to be nothing but automatons. I don’t want automatons on the police force. We need more Serpicos.

          You don’t have to be a psychologist to understand that upset peoples’ cognition may not be up to par and that a slow response does not warrant being executed. You don’t know have to be a psychologist to have BASIC social skills. The fact that the cop would not step backwards says volumes. I want a cop who even though he knows he can shoot and get away with it, will choose not to anyway. They guy was far enough time for the cop to react if the “suspect lunged.” (He already had is gun drawn) Cops are not suppose to take zero risks. We just allow them not to take unreasobale risks. Supposedly, part of the pride in being a cop is that being a cop implies some courage.

          I heard a guy propose that we reinstate the draft. Not for the military but for the police. That way you have people on the police force that have more life experience, better social skills, less likely to have an authoritarian attitude, and best of all people who are going to be more likely to rat out the thugs. I think social pressure keeps some otherwise good cops from speaking up. If they have the work in a social group for the rest of their career, they are less likely to rock the boat. Again, we need more Serpicos.

          • Bradley Hill

            MARK…in this video, not some other video or some article some other place, HOW did this officer use excessive force or become a jerk toward the guy who pulled a knife on him?
            You are rambling on and on in your post about cops being jerks and they are being trained that way, etc., etc., etc. How many cops do you know? How many cops have told you that cops are different today than yesterday?
            Cops are people. Just plain ordinary people, who go to work and go home to their family, if they have one. They are just like you and me, but they wear a badge. NO officer goes out in the field and does what they want to do. Their is departmental policies that are very strict. The Department Chief oversees everything that happens and sanctions or does not sanction certain things that happen to one of their officers in the field. So stop worrying that some cop will get away with something unjustified while on his shift.

            • Mark Stuber

              re: “. How many cops do you know? How many cops have told you that cops are different today than yesterday?”

              There are at least 4 cops I know off the top of my head. Two of them I play poker with. One made detective since I have known him.
              The one that made Detective I’ve actually been to several 4th of July picnics with. One of them I know through his brother who used to tell me war stories (he was a Marine in Iraq) at a bar I frequented and played pool with. The other I had classes with.

              re: “How many of them have I told cops are different now than they used to be?”
              Every one of them.

              Are you surprised that I could tell them how I felt without getting arrested? It’s telling how your rhetorical questions indicate that you felt it unlikely that wouldn’t be scared to express such views to cops.

          • Josh Kline

            Mark,
            My point was that he shouldn’t have gone in the house once the man was contained he need not engage. (Again if he followed the policy than I blame the policy in at least equal parts.) However you have to deal with what actually happened. He did enter the house and he did justifiably use force to stop a deadly threat to himself. You 1/3 to 1/2 is meaningless conjecture. Even the hotheads in my experience aren’t bad people and want to do a good job- I just worry they won’t assess high stress situations well and will escalate confrontation when the opposite is needed. Either way it is easy for me to say not being in the situations.

            • Mark Stuber

              “You 1/3 to 1/2 is meaningless conjecture.”
              It’s not conjecture at all. It’s based on experience and exerience I heard from others. Just because it is a rough estimate doesn’t mean it is conjecture. If you worked with these “hot heads” did you do anything to get them more training or off the force?

        • Bradley Hill

          Thanks for your thoughtful post, firstly. You hit the nail on the head at the end of your post. It IS policy of many, if not most Police Administrations that IF a perp. pulls a knife on one of their officers, they ARE justified in shooting them.
          If you have ever seen photos of perps who cut the living crap out of a police officer because the officer got to close and did not have their weapons drawn, you will be more educated on why police officer are given that green light to shoot their victims.
          Police officers have to assume that whenever a perp. pulls a knife on them, they are not inviting them to a knife toss, but they want to cut the cop up.
          Some people are very proficient with a knife. They know how to throw them and possess the art in using them to their advantage. NO cop can know how well a person can use the knife they pull on them. So, like a side arm, the gun is always considered to be loaded. Likewise, the knife can kill them in an instant as well.

          • Josh Kline

            You do realize you call me a moron right above this right? Maybe take a little more time before name calling. I thought through this scenario quite bit and viewed the video many times before opining. I think my views are balanced and reasonable.

      • Bradley Hill

        Yes, police are different now then they used to be. The standard for getting into the Academy has dropped. Why would any thinking person want to be a cop with your kind of thinking toward them? Only recruits who haven’t or don’t believe this is the general thinking toward them, apply to the Academy. Then over a period of time, they learn how much people like you hate them for the decision they have to make when a person pulls a knife on them.

        • Mark Stuber

          I’ve always treated police with respect even when I did not need to.

          Re: “Why would any thinking person want to be a cop with your kind of thinking toward them?”

          You’re the one that described them as being nothing but automatons and only being able to handle situations that they are exactly trained for: not I.

          No intelligent, moral, confident, person would feel insulted because I felt they should be competent enough to have moral culpability for their actions.

          If good cops don’t want their reputations tainted by bad cops, the good cops should stop defending the bad cops, either by commission or omission. We need more Serpicos instead of cowards and hot heads.

        • Mark Stuber

          re: “Why would any thinking person want to be a cop with your kind of thinking toward them?” Why would any smart person who likes to think want a career where he is expected to be nothing but an automaton as you described current police culture and seemed to endorse. I suspect the expectation to be an automaton would deter a young person from making law enforcement a career than people like me who expect them to practice common decency and common sense.

      • Bradley Hill

        To answer your question: NO Mark! Departmental Policy is a MUST to follow by a peace officer, employed by the city. They MUST follow departmental policies in all cases. They are trained ahead of time on how to respond to all situations, prior to being employed. Now, not all departments have the same policies. That may be where most of the confusion comes. “IF” an officer acts outside the departmental policies while in the field, he or she could face immediate termination.
        Firing ones weapon while on or off duty is investigated, immediately. They are immediately placed on administration leave while the report of the incident is sent to Internal Affairs for the department and a review panel follows, with the officer in question, present.
        He or she is questioned by the panel and they must convince the panel, along with the Police Depts. internal procedures and policies that the shooting was justified. This is NOT a cakewalk for a police officer by any means. If the panel acquits the police officer, he or she returns to the field.

        • Mark Stuber

          What question are you answering? I asked several and don’t remember if one was directed at you.

        • Mark Stuber

          Re:
          “They are trained ahead of time on how to respond to all
          situations, prior to being employed.”
          How is that even possible?
          What you described is a situation where cops are nothing but automatons. That is a horrible situation if true.

        • anon

          Right..have cops “investigate” other cops…

          Might as well let bank robbers investigate bank robberies.

    • Joseph Carslake

      Of course the poor policeman should not be tackled in any way, and why should he be punished? Sure everyone knows they are Judge, Jury and Executioner and they a special right that other human beings dont have, we ALL know this no matter where we live, so if a policeman decides you need to be shot then at least have the decency not to make a fuss about it. We all need a stroke of an iron bar to keep us in line. Parents cant smack their children but we all know its OK for a policeman to hit you with an iron bar!

      • Bradley Hill

        Joseph Caraslake….you are producing a big pile of moronic crap in your post. If you ever got hit with an iron bar, you probably deserved it.

        • nuwriter

          How does it feel to be the dumbest guy in every room you enter? Does it help to be the most socially repugnant as well?

    • Conservativesniper

      Josh, you are a complete idiot who exhibits a tremendous misunderstanding of rational behavior. Let me guess, you are a cop or service a cop. At that range, less than ten feet, the stupid, murderous pig should have been able to disable the target, nonlethally, by hitting the leg. 5 rounds? I am trained in use of deadly force and your blather doesn’t pass the smell test. That cop is trigger happy and should be indicted. The video shows NO sudden or aggressive behavior by the deceased, he was murdered, plain and simple.

      Oh, a taser has a much greater effective range than a knife. That cop needs to be doing at least 20 years.

      • Josh Kline

        Not a cop/wannabe/booster and I am very skeptical of police I hold them to a high standard. In this case I said he made a mistake by entering the house. I do own firearms and I have trained on firearms and defense. Yes the taser has a greater effective range than a knife- I never said otherwise what I pointed out was that it is usually one shot (there is a new one that has two) and you have to hit both probes. If the officer used his taser and missed he could have been killed. If the probes failed to penetrate he could have been killed. Any officer will tell you that a taser is not suitable weapon to defend against deadly force- this isn’t a debatable point. There are procedures and training established based on decades of experience and research.

        As for the leg- this is not currently accepted by any trainers I know of. I have heard that the FBI used to train a hip shot technique but does not advocate that anymore. It is easy to poke holes through paper accurately at 10-15 feet but in a high stress environment while moving hitting a leg is a bad idea. Even well trained police miss frequently under stress and miss badly. Center mass is the biggest easiest target and two shots is likely to stop a threat. (5 shots is exceeding his training but again it is a stressful situation- if you want to pass judgement on that you certainly can)

        “The video shows NO sudden or aggressive behavior by the deceased, he was murdered, plain and simple.”
        Who is not being rational now? Since when is advancing on someone with two knives while they back up shouting that they will shoot not aggressive? The officer clearly backs away for at least 2-4 seconds as the man advances all the while warning him to stop. The more I watch this the more convinced I am this man wanted to die. He probably did not want to stab the officer but we will never know what he would have done had the officer turned and ran or did not shoot.

        This officer made a bad call going into the house- but his call to shoot was justified.

      • blkdragon

        No, a taser does not have a greater effective range than an knife. The leads on a taser are only 12 to 20 feet, and both need to hit the target for it to work.
        A motivated knife wielder can cover 21 feet in less than one second to stick that knife in you.

      • moe

        Ignorant

        • Mark Stuber

          Brilliant rhetoric. My only criticism of it is that it was too long winded.

      • Eric Jackson

        If you were over 12 or had moved out of your mother’s basement, or had any handgun training outside call of duty or you tube, you would know better than to suggest shooting the legs, or refer to such shots as nonlethal.

      • Artie P

        Your are trained in the use of deadly force???? Shoot at the legs??? You are blowing smoke dude, that only happens on television. If you were properly trained to use deadly force, you would know that you shoot for the center of the chest, with no less than a double tap. The kid kept walking towards the cop, at a fair pace, after being warned many times to drop the knife. What, Conservativesniper, would you have done in that situation? I am betting that you would have done the same damned thing. There is always the question of abuse of power, but that was clearly not the case in this situation. Shoot at his legs?? Yeah, you were trained really well in the use of deadly force!! When you parade yourself around as someone who is in the know, you only make a fool out of yourself to those who do understand the rules of the use of deadly force. And I guess that you think that the cop got off on killing this kid. Did you hear how fast he was breathing, after he shot the kid? Who taught you the rules of deadly force, Deputy Dawg?

    • Ralph E Berkeypile Jr

      What would have happened if the violent braindead maniac behind a badge never entered the home? Answer: Nothing. The blue-light street pirate should be tried and executed for murder.

  • kreator

    Lets see … “put the knife down” several times. The guy moves towards him and still doesn’t listen and cop warns him that he WILL shoot him. Still continues to move forward. Your excuse for the guy is he is in a state of shock??? Really? FFS I can’t stand power hungry murderous cops, but this is as far as you can get from brutality. Learn the difference before posting moronic articles.

    • Mark Stuber

      So your argument is the Cop had the right to kill the guy for disobeying him? Notice how you only discussed that guy disobeying the cop. You did mention they “contineues to move foward” did you notice how slowly he was moving?

      • Poorlaggedman

        Go find any cop and walk at them “slowly” with a knife. See what happens. Doesn’t matter if it’s in a courtroom or in your own home. The guy was an idiot if he had anything in mind other than suicide by cop. Don’t call the cops if you think your loved one has a deadly weapon that he’s going to threaten cops with. All over a fender bender. The victim is at fault here for bringing this tragedy to his home.

        • Mark Stuber

          Re: “Go find any cop and walk at them “slowly” with a knife.” Are you trying to get me arrested? What a straw man argument. No one ever suggested it was a good idea to approach a cop wielding a knife. Is you argument that cops have a right to shoot stupid people?

          You calling the victim does not justify the cop shooting him. What it implies is disgusting. You’re implying that our right to live is dependent upon our IQ score.

      • kreator

        No Mark.. my argument is the guy knew exactly what would happen to him if he moved towards the cop. The cop is in a threatening situation and I don’t think clocking how fast the guy is moving at him comes to mind, whether its a cop in that position or any citizen defending themselves.

        • Mark Stuber

          Re: “my argument is the guy knew exactly what would happen to him if he moved towards the cop. ” Interesting: So the guy knew the cop would not back up but would shoot instead. I think if it was suicide by cop he would have charged the cop. I wasn’t expecting the guy to clock the situation. You’re the one that brought up the “two seconds.” You can’t just shoot a guy because you “walk into a threatening sitution.” If the cop knew he was walking into a threatening situation his actions are even more inexcusable. This means he had time to consider his options. One of which was to back up. You just took away his “I was surprised” excuse.

    • Mark Stuber

      So your argument is the Cop had the right to kill the guy for disobeying him? The guy clearly was not threatening the officer.

      • kreator

        Mark be realistic here … The guy is approaching him with a knife. In your eyes, he was not moving fast enough to justify the officers shooting. When exactly would it be justifiable? When the guy already stuck the blade into him?

        • Mark Stuber

          When the guy lunged or came within stabbing distance. I am being realistic. The cop was too eager to shoot.

        • nuwriter

          Let’s be realistic.
          The guy is approaching him with a gun.

          • Bradley Hill

            Something you may never live to do nutwriter.

            • nuwriter

              You really are one tough guy, aren’t you Cartman?

              You’re dumb as a post, but man you think you’re tough.

            • nuwriter

              Oooh, tough talk, Cartman. Aggressive non sequiter is still non sequiter.

        • Bradley Hill

          Mark is visualize something he saw on one of his war games CD

      • Taylor Post

        “Disobeying” him? He was approaching the officer with 2 deadly weapons. That goes a lot further than disobedience.

        • Mark Stuber

          He was approaching very slowly with his weapon to the side. The officer could have simply backed up out of the door. How many times did the cop yell. He could have stepped out the door 4 or 5 times before he decided to shoot. It’s that shooting was his first instinct. He could have stepped out. There was no one else in there with the “suspect.” If he wanted to keep his eye on him he could have backed up one step for every step the “suspect” made closer in order to keep a safe distance. That cop had plenty of alternatives. Your talking as if the cop was charge by the suspect. He wasn’t.

        • Mark Stuber

          He was moving very slowly and his knife was to the side. The cops had to take other actions like backing up. Like you said, he stated 3 or 4 complete sentences. In that amount of time, he did not take one step backwards.

        • Mark Stuber

          So, the cop was approaching the victim with an even more deadly weapon and with a weapon that was drawn and aimed at the victim. The victim knife was being held to the sdie let alone raised in a threatening matter to the cop. They cop was yelling and aiming his weapon. The victim was holding a knife to the side an walking slowly.

          • Bradley Hill

            Oh, you think so? A gun more deadly in the hands of a person than a knife? Even a more deadly weapon. OK, I will give you a gun and you can go up against my choice of a man I know who knows martial arts and trained in knives & stars.
            I bet he will stick you before you get your gun out of your holster. And if you have your gun out already, he will stick you before you shoot him. Why? Because he knows how to throw knives & stars with extreme accuracy.
            Problem is, you won’t learn anything from what you said above because you will be, well….dead.

            • Mark Stuber

              re: “OK, I will give you a gun and you can go up against my choice of a man I know who knows martial arts and trained in knives & stars.” How is that senerio analogous to the shooting we are discussing. Obviously the victim wasn’t Leo Tortal Gaje, Jr. How bout giving me a gun and setting me against someone with a knife who is not trained in martial arts. Or how about giving a Delta Force member a gun and put him up against against Leo Tortal Gaje, Jr

        • Bradley Hill

          Taylor….that’s the problem with the people in this forum who are against cops…They are anti-authority. They don’t think the cop has any right to order a guy who is coming at him with a knife to set the knife down. You see that would be an order and people in here don’t like it when anybody tells them what to do. Its the whole crux of their argument against the cop…You know what I say? TOO BAD!

      • Bradley Hill

        The office will more likely be exonerated from shooting this guy at the IA hearing. Your opinion won’t be heard or considered.

    • nuwriter

      Let’s see. Approach with a gun. “I will shoot you”.

    • Bradley Hill

      Yes, but nutwriter doesn’t like how loud the cop’s voice came across the the guy with the knife. nutwriter has been saying over and over that the cop spoke to loudly to the guy and that’s why the guy came after the cop with his knife. Sheesh.

  • Chuck Bump

    What’s the difference between this and how the S.S. handled things in Nazi Germany?

    • Mark Stuber

      The SS would have gone there knowing there either going to kill someone or taking him somewhere to be tortured.. THe SS would not have been the one’s responding to a suicide attempt. I don’t think the cop was right but, he’s not SS.

  • Trenaway ElDaryl

    You need to stop lying to your readers. The police officers did give warning, several times. “Put the knife down, I am serious!” He told the man several times to put the knife down and the man continues to advance toward him. Officer was 100% justified in his actions!

    • Leonard Rusciani Jr

      5 shots? No taser?

      • Poorlaggedman

        You don’t moderate in deadly force. A knife is deadly force. Tasers are a one-shot weapon. Blame it on the lawyers. If he would have shot him in the leg the department woulda been sued. Blame it on the movies for projecting fantasy cop situations that never happen. Real “heroes” are not Superman or Batman, they use deadly force or some day in their career they’re gonna end up dead.

        • nuwriter

          I’ve got knives in my house right now.
          I may make toast later, I may walk towards people with that knife to make toast. This is not deadly force.
          Eric Johnston did not make a threatening move. He made no sudden moves at all.
          Mortenson did make a threatening move – entering the house with his gun drawn.
          I don’t blame “the lawyers”. I blame the cop who walked through the door and made a bad situation much, much worse very, very quickly.

          • Poorlaggedman

            Man people like you are the reason I can’t identify with the libertarian movement because it’s anti-society. Cops don’t retreat, if they did they’d catch hell if the guy hurt someone else. Any ****ing idiot would know a cop will shoot you in this situation. He drew his gun. You’re about to get shot. When he says he’s going to shoot you, that’s a hint. You’re no smarter than those idiots on cops high and drunk trying to dominate the situation when the cops show up — hello, those pigs are there for a reason. You ****ed up and they got called. Deal with it. He wanted to get shot. It IS the lawyers’ fault cops can’t shoot to wound. ****ing parasite lawyers are the reason you can’t fire warning shots either. Your loved one is out in the yard crying about you with a knife in your kitchen.

            • nuwriter

              People like you are the reason that I don’t care what people like you think. Not that you think that much at all.
              There’s nothing “anti-society” about me. I don’t think the best way to resolve situations like this is with a drawn weapon. That’s the anti-social way of going about it.
              Any idiot would know that a suicidal person should not be threatened, not verbally, and then not with a gun.
              That “cops don’t retreat” is false. He already was retreating. This guy was no threat to anyone before the cop entered the house. He was clearly no threat to the woman who had called the police (supposedly for his benefit).
              Yes, this pig was here for a reason. And instead he shot the person he was called to help. This cop was called to help – did he? Did you miss that, or are you “high and drunk”? The officer was not high and drunk, yet he was trying to dominate the situation, when that was not the response that was called for. Yes, the victim was clearly troubled – I’m not defending his actions – nor dullard, am I claiming that I would repeat them. It is the actions of the officer that are in question here.
              I’m sorry, but that’s a rational analysis of the situation.

              • Brett Dent

                So you criticize the officer while, at the same time, saying you wouldn’t act in the way the suspect did in the same situation? Yeah, that’s called dumb.

                The only reason this cop was “backing up,” not “retreating,” is because this guy KEPT coming toward him while armed with a deadly weapon. And while retreating sounds good on paper, what happens when the guy comes outside where other, innocent bystanders are? He may end up shot still, but this also leaves open the possibility for him to hurt other people.

                A police officer drawing a weapon when in an uncertain situation, to me, is not threatening. To a suicidal person, perhaps.

                I’m siding with the LEO on this one. He gave more than ample enough time for this person to comply. They chose not to.

                As for your “well, he’s suicidal… the cop set him off” attitude, all I can say to that is that we differ on that one. This suicidal person was, imo, aggressive toward another person.

                • nuwriter

                  You are really thick aren’t you? Yes, I wouldn’t jump off a bridge, and yet I can criticize the actions of someone trying to talk another person off a bridge. I know, logic is hard for you, as you’re going to support this killer no matter what.
                  Yes, you’re siding with the LEO, because you feel you must, and because you are seemingly incapable of judging the entire situation. You take as givens things that are not given.
                  You don’t get that this officer escalated the situation needlessly, and shot someone. You give him the benefit of the doubt without a second thought.
                  In your mind, he had to go into the house, and he had to do so right away. It’s not even possible for you to examine that move. Nor to think that perhaps the officer’s communication strategy completely failed.
                  He had to initiate confrontation, and had to resolve the situation in less than two minutes. There’s no room at all to criticize the “law enforcement” officer here. He needed to approach the man with a gun.
                  This man was never a threat to innocent bystanders. If the officer had gotten out of the house, its more than likely that Eric (he has a name, you know), would have turned around and gone back into the kitchen.
                  But had he waited for backup (and with only one person outside – who he’d already had an opportunity to injure – yet had not) the innocent bystanders would have been in no danger.
                  Innocent bystanders actually were put in danger, as the officers bullets went through the wall into the adjoining apartment. You hadn’t considered that, had you. Your fake concern for nonexistent risk for innocent bystanders let you completely real risk to them.
                  What’s disgusting about you is that no matter how badly this officers actions failed – you do not allow yourself to question them for a second.

                • Mark Stuber

                  re: “So you criticize the officer while, at the same time, saying you wouldn’t act in the way the suspect did in the same situation? Yeah, that’s called dumb.” No it’s your creation of the false dichotomy that is either disingenuous or at the very least, dumb. Both could have been at fault. The murder victim took a ridiculous risk and the cop commuted murder.

              • http://wiseoldsnail.org/ wiseoldsnail

                intimidation, domination … lead to murder by cops every day …

            • Mark Stuber

              re: ” Any ****ing idiot would know a cop will shoot you in this situation.”" A cop isn’t suppose to shoot someone for merely being an “idiot.”

            • http://wiseoldsnail.org/ wiseoldsnail

              oh, please … this was not a person in his right mind, as the caller informed police when she called for HELP . that means the cop knowingly (as he acknowledged before entering) killed a man who was distraught and emotionally disturbed … and who threatened nobody

              murder by cop

      • Josh Kline

        Remember a taser is usually one shot and has to land both probes and penetrate clothing. This guy was erratic, unresponsive and holding a deadly weapon. The mistake was entering the house not the shooting. It would depend to me on the police policy in that area but I would think if he violated the policy by entering the house he should be disciplined perhaps fired but not criminally charged.

    • Jesse Halbig

      The cop-worship is astounding. Just because we design certain procedures or establish certain rules of engagement within police standard practice or respective code or law doesn’t mean they’re right or moral. Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told:Not doing what you are told, regardless of what is right. Just because something is legal doesn’t mean it right. And just because something is illegal, doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s wrong. As far as right and wrong go, there is no way this action was right.

      • Trenaway ElDaryl

        First you do not have a clue to what you are saying. There is no cop worshiping here!!! Second, I severed in the military as a security police and these procedures are in place to save lives. A police officers life is no less than the average citizen. A man was told five times to drop the knife and HE DID NOT! The man also was advancing on the police officer. A taser is not the right procedure in this case, deadly force was!

        • Jesse Halbig

          I have some clue. There certainly is cop-worship. Glorified violence in the name of law or faux justice. The procedures seem to take more lives than saving. Just because the man, who needed help – not dead – didn’t comply doesn’t warrant being killed for his failure to comply. And as far as advancing, I wouldn’t call what the man did advancing. I would call the what the officer did advancing. Deadly force should be a last resort, there were about a half dozen other ways to resort in this case outside of the use of deadly force.

          • Katy

            Glad to see there are people who get it.

            • Bradley Hill

              Get what? They side with your stupidity? In those days, people will say evil is good and good is evil. Oh yes, I see it plainly in people like you and those who “get it.”

          • Bradley Hill

            Yes, I we are all sure you have spent years upon years in the Law Enforcement arena so we can conclude from that that you know what you are talking about. Right?
            Are you for real?

            • Jesse Halbig

              That is not at all relevant to the 5 points made in my argument.

            • Jesse Halbig

              That is not at all relevant to the 5 points made in my last argument.

            • Jesse Halbig

              That is not at all relevant to the 5 points made in my last argument.

            • Jesse Halbig

              That is not at all relevant to the 5 points made in my last argument.

            • Jesse Halbig

              That is not at all relevant to the 5 points made in my last argument.

        • Brett Dent

          Exactly.

          The cop could have called for backup or a counselor or whatever, but a cop normally has to assess the situation before doing so. I personally don’t feel he was wrong to enter the residence.

          • nuwriter

            Clearly this officer’s judgment needs to come into question.
            His assessment did not work. A man, whom this officer was supposedly sworn to “protect and serve” is dead at his hands.

          • Bradley Hill

            He DID have back up….Did you bother to view the video or where you busy playing with yourself?

        • nuwriter

          Clearly these procedures did not save lives in this circumstance.
          Yes, you’re cop worshipping, and you don’t even realize you’re doing it.

        • Mark Stuber

          re: ” A man was told five times to drop the knife and HE DID NOT! T” So, what your saying is a man who disobeys your kind deserves to die. You sure did reveal your attitude with your post. You protested too much with “. A police officers life is no less than the average citizen”, i think you think LOE’s life is worth more. Why else would you brag about being “security police” in the military?

          Also, your screaming in all caps “HE DID NOT” fits the stereotype of the hot head cop who thinks anyone who is not a cop is less than human.

          • Bradley Hill

            Mark….the idiot can’t hear you…. It’s the INDOCTRINATION working in nutwriter…

        • Bradley Hill

          Thanks for your service Trenaway. I think many in this forum have authority issues and that reflects their clouded understanding what happened in the video.

    • Katy

      The writer did say the man was given warning. He stated there was little hesitation, not no hesitation. The officer isn’t justified for shooting this man, what gives him the right to be executioner? He’s the one who went into the house and confronted this man with his gun drawn, while Eric did not actively seek out to hurt the officer.

      • michael mcpaul

        katy you need to get a clue. The guy kept approaching the officer with a knife..me as a civilian would have done the same exact thing..and you dont know what Eric had planned on doing

        • nuwriter

          You make a habit of yelling at people with knives, and approaching them with guns drawn?
          You would really have done that?

        • Mark Stuber

          And you as a civilian would probably be facing charges. The police and D.A would not have sheilded you like they did this cop. In most states if you have an avenue of escape, you are required to take it.

        • Bradley Hill

          Michael….Katy needs more than a clue. She is missing reality. It’s the teachers fault you know…All the indoctrination these poor kids receive. They are just all mixed up these days.

      • Mark Stuber

        I think the only “hesitation” in the cop’s mind were legal considerations. I wonder if he wasn’t being recorded if he would have even told the victim to put the knife down.

    • nuwriter

      So as long as you warn your victims, you can shoot them?

      • Bradley Hill

        Yep…and the cop did, 5 times…then he shot the guy to death. The cop went home to his family. End of story.

        • nuwriter

          Every killer could use this excuse.
          Every killer could thus go home to his family and end the story.

    • http://wiseoldsnail.org/ wiseoldsnail

      the officer threatened to kill an already freaked out customer … that’s the deal . the officer inflamed the situation, increased the fear factor, and chose to kill … this is murder

  • Josh Kline

    Hard to say but I think suicide by cop is correct. The man could have lunged and killed the officer.The officer shouldn’t have gone into the house that was his mistake not the shooting which was justified. The officer should have confirmed with the woman that no one else was inside kept her out and called in a negotiator.

  • Eric Stephens

    I guess he forgot to charge his taser while off duty so the next best deterent was a 45 ACP. This cop should be in jail for murder.

  • dkw

    I was not there and only see the video but the guy was not rushing the officer. The officer could have moved back and locked the guy in since there was no back door. What about a tazer? Has to be a better way then just blasting away with a pistol.

    • Josh Kline

      The officer does move back for a few seconds and the guy keeps coming. He cannot turn his back at that point he is boxed in. The mistake was entering the house not the shooting.

      • Mic68

        He made no mistake entering the house and did it with the permission of the legal occupant because the legal occupant had requested their assistance with the suspect who was said to be suicidal. .

        • Josh Kline

          Even if only for his own safety why enter a volatile situation when no one else is at risk? I get the first part where he calls in and tries to calm the guy down but he shouldn’t have entered the house after that. Even if it was policy and legal I still say it was a unnecessary risk for himself and the man he shot.

          • Brian Kirk

            My guess is that without a response, he was afraid that the man was acting on his threat. And if he doesn’t clear the scene, the EMTs couldn’t enter to help. So he goes in to check…and everything goes south. Bad situation all around…but the cop did the right thing.

            • http://wiseoldsnail.org/ wiseoldsnail

              oh, bs … ‘clear the scene’ ??? the woman told the cop nobody else was in the house, and no back door … the cop should’ve waited him out and helped him to calm down

          • disqus_Kj8RZinYnI

            It is his JOB.

            • Mark Stuber

              Shooting people is his job? What’s the antecedent you’re referiring to with “it’s”?

            • nuwriter

              His job is not to escalate situations into crisis. He clearly thought that this was a possibility.
              The response of “he was doing his job” could be used to protect all manner of crimes.

              • disqus_Kj8RZinYnI

                He didn’t. The perp DID.

                • http://wiseoldsnail.org/ wiseoldsnail

                  wrong . unless you are correctly identifying this murderous cop as the perp . the COP POINTED A GUN at a man who was threatening NOBODY

        • nuwriter

          Yes, the legal occupant requested their assistance.
          What part of what occurred after that would you consider to be of “assistance”. He immediately started barking orders at people, added tension to the situation, and then entered with his gun drawn.
          The situation needed to be defused, and he did just the opposite.

      • nuwriter

        There’s a door right behind him. He was not boxed in.
        Entering the house is fine. Doing so with a gun drawn is not, and shooting is definitely not okay in this case.

      • Mark Stuber

        No one suggested the cop turn his back.

      • http://wiseoldsnail.org/ wiseoldsnail

        you don’t seem to understand the definition of ‘boxed in’ … the cop was not remotely boxed in … as the door was right behind him . he could’ve exited at any time

  • CaptainAhab

    Way to save him from killing himself, dude.

    • Compl3te

      another cop using unnecessary means to “stop” a human from HURTING themselves. watch out for those police, there’s a reason they removed, “protect and serve” as their creed.

      • Bradley Hill

        Ever think about buying yourself a body bag…Seems you will need one some day with your kind of evaluations.

        • Mark Stuber

          Why because he is likely to get killed by a cop for disagreeing with one?

        • Ralph E Berkeypile Jr

          Bradley Hill is a cop who actually believes that we will all die if he and his fellow violent thugs aren’t prowling the streets for cash and terrorizing the public.

          • Bradley Hill

            Wrong again Ralphy boy. I’m not a cop. I’m a person with common sense, something you & your followers lack.

    • Bradley Hill

      QUESTION STUPIDITY— People above me.

      • nuwriter

        Yes, questioning you is questioning stupidity, and just about everything with a pulse is above you.

        • Bradley Hill

          You don’t understand the word “liberty” nutjob.

          • nuwriter

            Sorry Brad, but I do understand liberty.

            It however does seem to be among the thousands of words that you can’t comprehend.

            Really, how much drool is on your keyboard?

            • Redley

              No, you don’t understand liberty nutcase.
              Ever fought in a war? Ever been to Vietnam? Ever kill a man? Ever protected your buddies by shielding them from a mortar round?
              Ever stood in the gap for a friend when they were being falsely accused?
              No, you think liberty means that you are free to do what you want aside from taking responsibility of the consequences of your actions.

              No, you are just another young person with a Entitlement attitude.

              And you point to me as the person that can’t comprehend.

              • nuwriter

                No, I think liberty means being free of coercion and violence – the right to be left alone. I certainly don’t think it means being free of consequences. I know, reading is not something you do – so this will be tough for you.

                I don’t have an entitlement attitude at all. Yes, I point to you as a person who can’t comprehend, as you clearly demonstrate here.

                Your war examples have nothing at all to do with liberty. They are about the absence of liberty. If you think war is liberty, then you are truly a lost cause. War is the health of the state – the biggest excuse for taking liberty, for growing the government at the expense of the people.

  • Bo Kelleher

    Just like they teach in the academy. Officer Safety. Geez.

    • Chuck Bump

      If that is true, then I can see the cops protecting the illegal gov’t militia. I thought all peace officers were sworn to uphold the Constitution, even over crooked leaders. It’s getting more and more obvious why their trying to take away all of the guns. It worked for Hitler!

  • Mic68

    It’s a good shoot.

    • Mark Stuber

      maybe by the standards they taught you at the Thug Academy.

    • Chuck Bump

      What does that mean? Like a righteous shooting or action? Five times? I’m sorry, I’m usually on the side of law enforcement but this is disgusting. Even if it was “suicide by cop”, there was little justification for the officer to fire on him. He was nowhere near the office and his knife was still at his side.

      • Mark Stuber

        Maybe Mic68 feels disobedience warrants being shot.

        • Mic68

          Sorry Mark regardless of your “Feelings” ones rights of self protection are not voided by the badge he wears.

          • Mark Stuber

            That wasn’t self protection. If I had shot that guy on camera under those same exact circumstances I would have been charged and probably convicted. They guy with the knife was not moving in a threatening matter and his knife was to his side. He was moving very slowly. You’re right the badge does not void someone’s right to protect himself. Evidently, in this case, it voided his culpability for senseless killing.

            Also, where did I ever claim a cop did not have a right to defend himself? What a gross straw man argument. I did not argue that the cop doesn’t have the right to self defense. I argued that, that was not self defense. Did they teach you to use dishonest arguments at the Thug Academy?

            • Mic68

              His disobedience to drop the weapon combined with his movement towards the officer warrant the officers actions. Why would someone with a knife , knowing why the officer is there approach an officer? Please answer that for me “Straw man” The speed at which person with an exposed weapon approaches you does not in anyway change the fact that he with a weapon drawn approached an officer with a weapon drawn. He got the outcome he intended.

              • Mark Stuber

                “Why would someone with a knife , knowing why the officer is there approach an officer? ” Because he was in shock which is why he went to his friend’s house. Not understanding a man’s motivation is not reason enough to shoot him.

                Are you accusing me of making a straw man argument? What argument was that? How did I put words in your mouth?

                re: ” The speed at which person with an exposed weapon approaches you does not in anyway change the fact that he with a weapon drawn approached an officer with a weapon drawn. He got the outcome he intended.” The speed does affect the level of danger the cop was in and whether or not the cop had a reasonable amount of time to take other actions. Even if the guy was intending suicide by cop, that does not justify the cops actions unless, assisted suicide is legal in that state.

              • Mark Stuber

                You implied I made straw man argument. I request that you point out where I did or retract your accusation. I already asked you once where I put words in your mouth.

              • http://wiseoldsnail.org/ wiseoldsnail

                suggesting ‘disobedience’ is an excuse for murder … is your fatal flaw

          • http://wiseoldsnail.org/ wiseoldsnail

            self protection? the cop was pointing a gun at a man and chose to approach him, instead of back off and await help, or wait ’til the guy, who was threatening NOBODY, calmed down . this was murder

            • Mic68

              Watch the video. The cop did back off .

              • http://wiseoldsnail.org/ wiseoldsnail

                no, he didn’t . he moved into the house and never moved out . the guy was no threat to anyone . this was murder

                • Mic68

                  So if a crazy person approached you and continued to approach you with a knife after being repeatedly told to stop you wouldn’t shoot them?

                  • http://wiseoldsnail.org/ wiseoldsnail

                    i wouldn’t corner a person like this … i wouldn’t walk in shouting orders and making threats … i would have managed to get him to trust, by my willingness to respect and WAIT

      • Josh Kline

        While two shots is the general rule- it is easier said than done. The guy is boxed in with an erratic man with a knife- I don’t know that I could only take a controlled pair under that stress. Shouldn’t have gone in the house but once he did he made the right call.

        • Mic68

          Why shouldn’t he entered the house? They were called by the legal occupant and entered on her request. to deal with a suicidal subject.

          • Josh Kline

            He isn’t a suicide counselor and he is told the man has a knife. If there was someone else in there I’d agree but there wasn’t.

            • http://wiseoldsnail.org/ wiseoldsnail

              which means the cop should have waited for someone who could help …

          • http://wiseoldsnail.org/ wiseoldsnail

            yeah, not to murder him, but to HELP . but gang members aka cops know nothing about helping

        • http://wiseoldsnail.org/ wiseoldsnail

          oh, bs … ‘boxed in’ ??? the man was boxed in by a cop approaching while pointing a gun at him … the cop was in no way boxed in, as he CHOSE to enter and threaten to kill the man, and had the door available behind him as easy escape

          ‘shouldn’t have gone in the house’ makes him responsible, having done the wrong thing, for the murder he committed

      • Taylor Post

        An average person with a knife can close 21 feet and cause mortal wounds in <2 seconds. The officer was also boxed in between the homeowner and the man with the knife. In pistolcraft, you train to shoot until the threat falls down. This officer shot until Johnston stopped coming towards him, IE, less than reasonable force. "Good Shoot" means that a reasonable person would have done the same thing under those circumstances.

        • Mic68

          Finally someone with some sense.

        • nuwriter

          What was needed was conflict resolution and counseling.
          Not pistolcraft.
          That “an average person with a knife can close 21 feet and cause mortal wounds in <2 seconds" is irrelevant here. In order for that to occur, they'd have to make any sort of sudden move. That did not occur here.
          A competent human being can remember where a door is. He was not boxed in.

          • Bradley Hill

            Poor baby he was…All boxed in with nowhere to go. He had an upset stomach and didn’t get any sleep the night before and everybody was against him including his girlfriend who by the way, called the cops to begin with because she was afraid for her own life. Oh, poor baby. We need to give this guy food stamps and a welfare check to go along with the food stamps and make sure he gets his rent paid every month. Oh, the poor, poor guy who didn’t put the knife down when the officer told him to 5 times. Oh, this guy has a problem with authority so we need to put him in some therapy and watch over him, calling him every week to see if he is getting better.
            OH, PLEASE!!!!

            • nuwriter

              You really only have one response, don’t you? Even though its totally inappropriate in this situation.
              Cartman, this woman didn’t fear for her own life. That’s not why she called the cops. She didn’t come out of the house running, she came calmly to the door. He didn’t go to her because she was against him, precisely the opposite. How do you not get that? How do you also not get that she called the police because she was concerned for his safety, not hers?
              It’s your total lack of attention to details that’s really impressive.
              That you somehow think the “boxed in” comment was in reference to the victim instead of the officer is just one more in your long line of comprehension errors. Was there a test you had to fail to get your job, or was your uncle the mayor? How did someone as thick as you get a job in the first place?
              I never said he should get food stamps or welfare, those, like your salary are examples of well-intentioned government disasters that do much more harm than good.
              Y’know that your badge doesn’t make up for your lack of endowment, don’t you?

            • http://wiseoldsnail.org/ wiseoldsnail

              no, she didn’t call the cops because she was afraid for her own life . she called because she was afraid he might hurt himself … that said … this was a call for assistance with emotionally disturbed friend … to which police should never have entered

          • http://wiseoldsnail.org/ wiseoldsnail

            ‘zactly . the cop was not remotely ‘boxed in’ … and, in fact, ‘boxed in’ the man by shutting off his access to the door … and by pointing the gun at him and threatening to shoot . cop should’ve backed out immediately and awaited assistance

        • Mark Stuber

          You seem to be confused about the 21 foot rule. Two second is plenty of time to make the decision to pull the trigger and then to physically pull the trigger if you already have your gun drawn..

          Two second is not plenty of time to decide to shoot, draw your gun, aim, and then get two shots off before the knife attacker closes the distance.

          When I first read the headline, I thought I was going to invoke the 21 foot rule myself. But then, I watched the video and saw the cop already had his weapon drawn and aimed.

          Since this cite won’t let me post links, Google “Reaction Time – Lethal Force Encounter SHooting Scene Cosiderations” Gaylan Warren Columbia Int’l. Forensics Lab..

      • Bradley Hill

        Well, you didn’t get your way on this did you? Mad? Confused? Perplexed? If I had a knife and you had a gun…and I came at you with it…You would shoot me, too.
        And don’t say you wouldn’t Chuck because if you say you wouldn’t you would sound too much like a fool.

        • http://wiseoldsnail.org/ wiseoldsnail

          the man was no threat to anyone, which means the cop had no legal excuse to point a gun at him

    • Bradley Hill

      I think so, but the sympathizers to the guy with the knife…well, they are just wrong. The cop Is home with his family, no doubt troubled about his day, but life goes on.

      • http://wiseoldsnail.org/ wiseoldsnail

        the cop is a murderer . how many people have you killed, cop?

        • Bradley Hill

          I think you are a unwisepunk who still lives under mama’s roof.

          • http://wiseoldsnail.org/ wiseoldsnail

            lucky for the world, what you think matters little … you’re wrong, of course, but thanks for the ‘punk’ compliment!

          • nuwriter

            Do you think making up words make you seem clever? It doesn’t.

            Projecting again on the mom’s basement, are we?

            Really, have you ever actually engaged in a serious debate? There’s more to it than name calling. You actually have to have a logical point, and then back it up with reason.

            • Redley

              Serious debate?? Oh, is that what
              You have been trying to do in this forum?
              Your comments are never worth giving a serious response. Debate you say?

              Your posts are Progressive, I’ll-thought out and mostly demented. Why would anyone take you serious?

              • nuwriter

                Yes, debate. I know, it’s a big word for you. Maybe it will be in your reader next month.

                No, my posts are not progressive. They’re libertarian. I know, you’re shocked to find libertarian thought on a libertarian site.