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By Aidan Mattis

AUTHOR’s NOTE: The following is meant to portray a genuinely objective and neutral description of Richard Spencer and what he believes. I, the author, do not intend to praise or criticize, simply to inform. Opinions presented are my own or Mr. Spencer’s, and do not reflect the views of The Libertarian Republic.

I had just left the opening speaking event at CPAC 2017 when I noticed a crowd a reporters surrounding someone in the middle of the aisle. I’m not the tallest guy in the world, so I made a point of pushing myself to the front of the circle. Shoving aside reporters from NBC, CNN, and even some foreign media outlets, when I suddenly found myself standing directly in front of the man who is the defacto leader of the Alt-Right movement. Despite my voice being all but gone, I managed to shout my way to getting Richard Spencer’s attention.

Our exchange was brief, maybe three or four questions. I asked him about his opinions on white supremacy, what he believes race is, who I am, who he was. Finally, I asked him about his opinion on Rock music. My goal in this was to get him to admit that a genre developed from Blues, originally created by African slaves and their descendents, was good. Thus, cultures mixing could be good. To my surprise, he completely agreed that cultures could mix to produce great things. Though he then made the comment that he doesn’t particularly like rock, and that “Depeche Mode is the official band of the Alt-Right,” I’d been placed on my heels. The Richard Spencer I’d read about was a staunch White Nationalist, the driving man behind the idea of a “European Ethnostate” and “peaceful ethnic cleansing”. Why would he like cultural mixing? He did explain that it was more the genetic mixing of the races that troubles him, but we had little time to speak.

I walked away from that conversation intrigued, but mostly confused. Who was this guy? I knew he was the guy who got punched for being a “Nazi”, I knew he was the guy who had led a group to “heil” Trump on video once or twice. I realized, then, that these were snapshots of the man’s life and personality, and I was curious to know more. Regardless, I was a college freshman with a political blog that has peaked at a grand total of 64 views on a post (most of which were classmates forced to read my work). I was content to move on without trying to get deeper into this guy’s head.

It was when he mentioned me, without my name, in his recap video of his brief experience, that I realized what an opportunity I had. If he felt that I had been respectful and genuinely open minded towards him, perhaps he’d be willing to sit through a full interview? I emailed him, got confirmation and a phone number, and on Friday morning, I made the call.

It was early in the morning, I was drinking coffee from the dining commons and I assume he was drinking coffee as well. According to Spencer, he likes his coffee black, preferably from his Aeropress®, though he occasionally will enjoy a cappuccino or other specialty espresso beverage. I can’t stomach what they serve us here at Penn State without plunging half a pound of sugar and a quart of half and half into it, and thus I envy Spencer’s access to high quality beans. We spoke for about thirty minutes, and I have to say I was impressed. Though I sincerely disagree with him on much of what we discussed, Spencer was articulate, he was polite, and he spoke to me openly and as an equal.

To get into who Richard Spencer is, he grew up in the suburbs of Dallas, TX, as part of a typical American family. He remembers “meeting other kids in the neighborhood, riding bikes, all that [kid] stuff…” Spencer had a fairly idyllic, ‘Leave it to Beaver’ upbringing. He attended two private schools in his youth, Greenhill and St. Mark’s. Both in suburban Dallas, he explained that St. Marks, while preppy and “waspy,” had the most effect on who he would become.

As an adult, he prefers coffee to tea, and he likes a restaurant prepared medium rare steak if he’s going out to treat himself to dinner. Spencer and I agreed very much that “the one undeniable benefit of mass immigration has been spicy cuisine.” As I was closing out the interview, he also made sure to inform me that his favorite evening beverage is a good glass of bourbon, but that is enough of the platonic.

Getting into the real “meat and potatoes” of our conversation, I opened by telling him that “I don’t want to make a huge sting operation out of this, I don’t want to slander you, I just want to figure out who you are.” The very first thing we did was define race. Spencer explained that in his opinion, “race is an extended family, very often on a continental scale, but it can be on a regional scale.” He remarked that race vary anywhere from the inhabitants of an entire continent to a single, extended familial line. “It is an extended family that has interbred over at least the course of tens of thousands of years,” he said, “and this could be due to continental separation, or to other factors as well.” Spencer also explained that “the essence of evolution is that a gene pool is plastic to its environment.” This means that populations adapt and evolve based on the conditions of the world around them, meaning that certain modern races have different traits better suited to their ancestral homeland.

Richard discussed this definition solely under the evolutionary umbrella. When asked whether he identifies more as creationist or as evolutionist, he said he is “not a creationist at all.” As we continued, Spencer saw some irony in the left wing. They continuously denounce both the concept of race as a genetic and physical construct, in favor of calling it a social construct; at the same time, these people also denounce religion and creationism in favor of evolutionism. He said that “the only way races could be genuinely equal is if they were created” to be that way. Spencer was clear, however, that he does not believe in broad racial superiority. “[Races] will take on different characteristics, they’ll have different qualities,” he suggested. He went on to explain that evolution can happen very quickly, citing the creation of the golden retriever dog breed over the past hundred years as an example. He went on to say that “no one denies the existence of race in the natural world. We seem to think that humans are special”.

Getting on from the subject of race, we discussed the petition going around for Spencer to take a DNA test. “Oh I’ve already done the DNA test” he said, laughing, “I’m over 99% European, mostly northern European.” He said this very matter of fact, continuing to explain that he has trace amounts of Middle Eastern, African, and Asian DNA as well. “People have this weird idea that 23andMe was going to prove that we’re all mixed in and it just didn’t happen.” Spencer went further, explaining that when he usually talks about race, it is on a grand scale. Continentally, people groups tend to have generally the same skin color, generally similar body archetypes, and share many phenotypic traits. Later in the interview, he said that “if you threw a northern european man into Africa, he would not survive”, citing the necessary evolutionary divergence of different races as the reason that we have so many tangible differences in our modern populations.

Spencer’s concern with race comes at an interesting place. He does not concern himself with the mixing of cultures, having acknowledged that this can produce favorable things like great food and great music. In terms of the accusations of being a white supremacist, he then denounced the idea of overall racial superiority as “ridiculous.” I asked him, on the topic of the term Nazi, whether he has anything against the Jewish people as a race or as a religion. “No, I don’t have anything against them. I’m not even sure that guy, did someone hear Nazi?” he responded. Spencer then went on to take note of the growing use of the term Nazi to encompass anyone left of center by far left activists. On the use of the word, he remarked that “The term Nazi is just a meaningless term,” and that “all of these basic conservatives , normal conservatives, are also getting punched – [he] of course got punched because [he is] Richard Spencer”. He referenced that at the DeploraBall, he saw a lot of violence against people simply for wearing MAGA hats. Moving back onto the original question of alleged anti-semitism, he said “I will definitely express criticism of jewish envoys to the United States, even Israel’s foreign policy and so on. But it’s not coming from a place of bigotry, it’s in a way the opposite actually.”

Spencer displayed an affinity for ethnic loyalty, stating that “people generally love themselves” and that “even if white people had lower IQs, [he] would still be a white advocate.” At this point we delved into the idea of a “white ethnostate” through “peaceful ethnic cleansing”. Spencer was quick to correct the record on this comment. “We still have this idea that Richard called for peaceful ethnic cleansing; I never called for ethnic cleansing.” Richard explains that his basis for, and the history behind, the quote in which he says the words “peaceful ethnic cleansing” comes from the Paris Peace Conference in 1919. He says that this was “a real example of peaceful ethnic cleansing, and obviously [he] was being a bit provocative in terming it like that…overall, the map of Europe was literally rewritten”. Discussing how the landscape of Europe was redrawn along linguistic, cultural, and at times religious lines, Spencer explained that this would be the model for the creation of an Ethnostate should it be done by government. However, he understands this is not likely to be the course of such a movement, because “this is not a policy that could be put forth by Donald Trump.” In terms of how his Ethnostate would come to be, Spencer simply remarked that he does not know what form the creation would take at the moment.

“I don’t imagine a little, linguistic nation state somewhere,” Richard explained of his vision, “the Ethnostate is…a homeland for all Europeans. It’s going to be much bigger, probably imperial in nature.” By imperial, Spencer explained that he meant this in the context not of an empire in the style of the British Crown, but that of Rome. One large, connected region ruled as a federal system from a central capitol, with administrative sectors like the American states or Roman provinces. It would not have “overseas colonies or…military base[s]”, but would simply be a centrally ruled homeland. I mentioned the current effort by the Chinese to promote a similar idea, in which they’ve begun shipping Han Chinese into outlying minority populations in an attempt to breed them out. Spencer had heard of this, yet did not say this is the way he would like to implement his idea. He suggested that any european nationalist state would be “post-American” and result from a “para-nomadic” period.

Because we’d spent the whole time talking about white people, I shifted the conversation at this point to the southern hemisphere. There have been suggestions for a long time now about the possibility of a United States of Africa. I asked Richard his opinion, and he seemed very intrigued by the idea. He explained that he believes the “fault lines of the 21st century and beyond are going to be racial, and…[he] doesn’t know if [a United States of Africa] would work or not…but that seems to be the general trajectory”, meaning that our species is headed not for multiculturalism, but a voluntary re-segregation of races to their geographic homelands. He swung the conversation back to Europe, remarking that “The European Union, whatever you want to say about it, is a part of this trajectory towards ‘pan-racialism’…” He goes on to mention that “Africans recognize – correctly in many ways – that we are stronger as one big block.”

Richard, at this point, made a comment about how the United States, before the demographic shifts of the mid 20th century, was essentially the kind of empire he had previously suggested. One central government ruled a large span of territory, presiding over a number of nominally autonomous states and ethnicities to “take advantage of the economies of scale” developing in that land. He described the situation of pre-modern America as that of an imperial state under the guise of a federal system of equally powerful states and their central meeting point.

My conversation with Spencer lasted about half an hour, and should be summed up in a short series of points.

  1. Spencer sees race as a tangible, physical difference between different populations of people; this results from the adaptation of the various gene pools to their local environments throughout early human history.
  2. Richard does not make any claim regarding the superiority of one race to the others, stating that “there is no universal, cosmic criterion for determining when one individual is better than another”. Any minor, singular traits that are superior to those of another race are based firmly in evolution and adaptation to one’s ethnic home. Essentially, a Norwegian in Norway is superior to other races only in Norway, because that is where he is adapted to be. In Liberia, he would be drastically inferior.
  3. Contrary to the accusations of his being a neo-nazi, Spencer asserts that he has “no problem” with Jews, but he will still feel free to criticize the foreign policy of Israel and other Jewish representatives as he would anybody else. He is frustrated by the use of physical violence by the left in recent months, especially as it pertains to people who are simply your average Republican.
  4. His ethnostate idea is currently impractical in the current geopolitical climate, and he seems to understand this. This is not to say that he has abandoned it, but simply acknowledges that at present the idea may not be wholly realistic. He also made sure to explain that he thinks the world is on a trajectory heading towards ethnostates, and that the transition can be peaceful.
  5. Finally, Mr. Spencer explained that the Ethnostate would not be a small region, but rather a large and centrally governed “empire” to be considered a homeland for all ethnic Europeans. Not an empire in the sense of conquest, but in the sense of its large territory and central governance.

In conclusion, I would like to reiterate that the goal of this article is not to praise spencer nor to put him on a cross, but simply to present a picture of who he is an what he believes. My intent is to provide an objective look into the ideology of someone who rarely is portrayed in an unbiased manner. Every voice should be heard, no matter what we may think of that which they have to say.

EDITOR’s NOTE: The views expressed are those of the author, they are not representative of The Libertarian Republic or its sponsors.

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  • ))) Depeche Europa (((

    Is it so Insane that White People want to have Solidarity and be Tribal?

    Is it so Insane that White People want to Defend Themselves?

    Is it so Insane that White People care about their own Interests?

    No……

    It’s very SANE and Logical……

    And Dangerous in today’s Socio-Political Climate……

    If Richard Spencer was a Fool……..no one would even care about him at all……

    The fact that he’s Right about many things……and highly Erudite and Persuasive…

    …….scares the Left……….

    …..to the point that eliminating him entirely…….

    ….isn’t out of the question…….

    But, the Irrational Hatred and Violence towards Richard is exactly why the Alt-Right is Rising…..

    So many people are being Red-Pilled right now……

    It’s AMAZING…….

    Thanks, Richard!

    • People know what happens when Europeans/whites look out for their interests: they tend to succeed. It’s concerning to people who need societal booster seats.

  • John Cross

    Blues also developed from country music, the first song that could ever be described as rap was a country song. If you think black music developed in a vacuum with no European influences, then you’re sorely mistaken. Also is the fact that cultures mixing can sometimes lead to some good things enough of an excuse to want to blend everyone to the point of there being no unique cultures whatsoever? And what exactly have blacks brought to white societies other than music that is of any note? Why do you think we should be erased from history, why do you think that’s a good thing? Most of what we take for granted now was developed, created and manufactured by Europeans.

  • form

    Aidan, I’d bury this article if I were you. Richard Spencer wants non-white people exterminated from this country, by any means necessary. And you’re trying to normalize him. Can this man even name one thing he’s lost to a person of color? How could you have neglected to ask him that? This article was lean on the facts, in addition to being grossly offensive. Kid, you have your whole professional life ahead of you. Don’t curry favor with bigots like Spencer, and botch it beyond repair before before you even get it started!

    • John Cross

      I’d bury this comment if I were you, nothing but unresearched lies and slander. You also just implied that in order to have a successful career you have to curry favour with people on the political left, which is unfortunately true, and pretty Orwellian. Fighting the good fight is never easy, when people want to leave you starving and destitute along the way.

      • form

        Many right-wing writers enjoy stellar careers, John. Just ask Richard Spencer’s former employers. I’m sure they’re not sorry that they’ve unloaded him.

        Good writers can succeed without pandering to anybody’s politics. As long as they do their jobs, they’ll be alright. That means telling the truth, respecting your sources, and not trampling anybody’s rights. None of those demands will pose any challenges for REAL writers and activists.

        • Landers333

          “That means telling the truth”

          Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!

          Chutzpah!

          “There is nothing that the Jew fears so much as the truth, or any hint of the truth about himself or his plans.”

          — Henry Ford

    • Bantz Henriksen

      Lying, loathsome worm.

      • form

        Oh, I’m a “worm”, eh? Tell me, in alt-right lingo, is that better or worse than being a “cuck”? Your little “movement” is so bloated with euphemisms, that it’s hard for real-spoken people to keep track of them all!

        • Landers333

          We smell bagels.

        • Bantz Henriksen

          herp derp

        • AJW

          I’m reporting ‘form’ for threatening behaviour online and cyber bullying.

    • Aidan Mattis

      My goal wasn’t to normalize or attack, just to present information. I don’t think I was complimentary of him, nor was I harsh. Might I ask what about the article you think is praising of him?

      • form

        I said you’re sucking up to Spencer, not that you’re praising him. What you’ve done, son, is “Lauered” the bar for this deplorable. Prudently, you’ve stopped short of calling him “charismatic”, “eloquent”, or “dapper”, as the alt-facts media have done. But, you’ve also squelched his backhanded support for evil customs and laws, many of which have been outlawed in most of the world. On his social media forums, Richard Spencer has “shared” quotes from the world’s most deeply hateful and racist people. And one of his Washington Post interviews was simply gone-chilling:

        “How, he was asked, in a nation with more than 100 million blacks, Asians, and Latinos, could a whites-only territory be created without overwhelming violence?

        Then, at last, he offered an answer.

        ‘Look, maybe it will be horribly bloody and terrible, he said. That’s a possibility with everything.'”

        Aidan, these expressions aren’t trolling, hyperbole, or gossip. Spencer is serious about everything he’s doing. So, your refusal to hold him accountable IS tantamount to a coy endorsement of his wretched beliefs. I mean, look at what you’ve sacrificed in order to do that! You’ve passed up an opportunity to serve the truth, opting instead to be a puppet for Spencer. Many of your readers are still not informed about Spencer’s dehumanizing “goals”. And your writing career will take a hit from this horrible article. You’ve put a lot into Richard Spencer – certainly more than he’s put into you. Maybe this was all just a misstep, but, for now, it *is* coming across as a sort of choice. Regardless, it’s time for damage control now. No writer should enter a self-imposed retirement at the tender age of nineteen.

        • Aidan Mattis

          Well I disagree. I wasn’t sucking up to him at all. To each his own I guess.

        • Landers333

          No one is buying your Hasbara-Jew BS.

          You’d better take your anti-White attacks somewhere else.

          The Alt-Right is here. — And we see you.

          And yes. — You’re all going back.

          Whether you go peacefully, or feet-first — we don’t really care.

          Fair warning, Chaim.

        • AJW

          Stop bullying a brave young person you weirdo

      • Landers333

        A very reasonable article about Richard Spencer and the Alt-Right. — Congratulations.

        Ignore the comment by “form”.

        Bagel detected.

        His comment is standard, Hasbara, concern-troll procedure.

        We get them all the time. — They’re easy to spot.

        They’re frantically attempting to gaslight awakening White people.

        They know that the Alt-Right is the future.

        And they’re terrified.

        They should be.

    • AJW

      Notice how ‘form’ doesn’t attack your article just threatens you with losing your job or future job. This is known as the ad employminum attack.

      • form

        I didn’t attack Aidan’s article, because I didn’t need to! These are his first attempts at public writing, and everyone can hold writers accountable, without excoriating them. In my previous comments, I called this article “lean on the facts”, “grossly offensive”, and “tantamount to a coy endorsement” of Richard Spencer’s “wretched beliefs”. Perhaps *you* could ask Aidan why he hasn’t posted screenshots from Richard Spencer’s Twitter account. Or why he didn’t probe Spencer’s rhetoric, to find out why he hates non-whites, though they’ve never once stopped him from enjoying the American Dream. Rather than report me for “bullying”, man-up and ask Aidan how Richard would get his “spicy cuisine” in a “whites-only ethnostate”. Those kinds of questions are the bedrocks of any honest Spencer profile, but Aidan dodged them all, and got sucked into the quicksand of played-out sound-bytes. Very unfortunate.

        Believe it or not, people DO still appreciate good journalism, and we DO distinguish between real and fake news. Being a hack might be no big deal when you’re nineteen, but Aidan probably won’t enjoy it too much when he’s 24. His future is FAR more important than your “need” to feed your insatiable xenophobia and racism. How could you care so, so little about it?

        • Aidan Mattis

          Nothing I wrote was offensive. If you’d actually read the article, you’d see that Spencer very clearly articulated that he doesn’t hate non-whites. The reason I wrote the article was to present information in an unbiased manner – something I did here very well in my opinion. I presented the information, it’s up to you to decide whether you believe him. This was an interview, not a research paper. It’s fine if you don’t believe what he told me, but please don’t attack my integrity over it.

          • form

            Aidan, when you write for work, or even when you’re just writing for an audience, it is not enough to refrain from (mis)using your own words as weapons. It is also your duty to try and limit your subject’s ability to do that. When you don’t, you produce a mess like this article. It would have taken you all of five minutes to comb through Richard’s social media footprint, and gather the full picture of his despicable “career” in White Power “activism”. Better time-management – not more time – was what this article required. Aggression is indiscriminate – it nukes the truth and the “enemy”. Because you shirked your obligation, your readers walked away from this article with only a caricature of the easygoing, smooth, and peaceful neo-Nazi. You’ve shortchanged them, and that’s wrong.

          • Landers333

            Thankfully, you’ll talk less when you’re a lampshade.

          • form

            Landers, you are vile! I deserve to believe what I want to, say what I want to, and eat what I want to, without being mocked or threatened! You are definitely the most anti-Semitic person on this webpage. How #deplorable.

          • Landers333

            The term “anti-semitism” was invented by the subversive Jew, Moritz Steinschneider, in 1860. to silence those who dared to expose Jewish crimes.

            Screaming “anti-semitie!” every time someone exposes the treasonous behavior of Jews, isn’t going to work anymore.

            Those days are over.

            You’ll have to find a new trick, Chaim.

          • Landers333

            Hey, Aidan.

            You need to stop responding to “form” as if he’s actually honest about his criticism of your article.

            He’s a Hasbara agent.

            His only goal is to attempt to threaten you out of writing fair articles about the Alt-Right in the future.

            The goal of our (((enemy))) is to use any subversive tactic in order to suppress the truth about the crimes of their perfidious tribe. — And the Alt-Right is in the process of exposing these truths.

            Expect more attacks from these rats if you continue to take the Red-Pill and expose the truth.

            No one ever leaves the Alt-Right. — Because we’re the bottom of the rabbit hole.

            And you’ll know it when you get here.

            Good luck.

    • Ryder

      Stfu

  • John Cross

    Very good and fairly written article, makes a change from all the slander, and outright lies directed at Spencer.

  • Anna K.

    Your writing is already better then the majority of journalists in the MSM. Keep up the good job of clear thinking and unbiased reporting!

  • 3RD LT Rico

    Hail Spencer!

  • TrumpianCourtier

    Incredibly refreshing take on Spencer’s general philosophy. I will be making it a point to look out for more of your writing in the future. Bravo!

  • 3RD LT Rico

    Am I banned fam?

  • Ryan McDonald

    If you reflect carefully doing your own survey of history and global development, you will quickly conclude that a precondition to anything like libertarian ideals is ONLY possible in a high trust / high intelligent / high empathy European “world” populated by ………. Europeans !!!

  • Pingback: I Had Coffee With Richard Spencer (And I'm Not Sorry)()

  • Ryder

    Some real journalism for a change! Thank you!

  • That was one scared shitless disclaimer at the top.

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